Re: If you're hungry for power or fuel efficiency, beware of a scam like this one:

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boris wrote:

From http://www.extra150miles.com/Technicaldata.html
"Sorry we do not disclose our invention / technique to general public. "
John
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Read the front page.
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GasSaver wrote:

I'm more concerned about your fictions than my frictions [sic].
John
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Thanks but don't be. I bet these guys are smarter than you, their thinking still have some flaws, they argued for 5 years with no result and we already got it done and tested.
http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Boiled_20Gasoline_20Engine/addnote#addnote
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GasSaver wrote:

http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Boiled_20Gasoline_20Engine/addnote#addnote
They well may be (smarter than I), but I see absolutely no evidence of it. If they're correct, then (by parity of reasoning), running on LPG should be much more /fuel/ /efficient/ than running on liquid fuel.
It isn't.
In company with yourself, if their engineering is as good as their grammar and their logic, they should be avoided like the plague.
John
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Good point, well made. LPG is half the price of petrol here to try and get people to take it up but it's reported in car magazines to be only about 85% as efficient as petrol.
--
Clive

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writes

Correct if you run propane alone. You guys make too quick assumption, you haven't studied any chemical transitions have you? I see many people on the internet playing too much with equations, no support evidences.
Any way remember, you're not on full horse power as autosellers want you to believe.
GasSaver
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snipped-for-privacy@yewbank.demon.co.uk says...

85% as efficient in an engine built to run petrol and tweaked to run LPG.
If an engine is built to run LPG, higher compression, stronger ignition system, more ignition advance, different ignition curve and a high boost turbo, you not only get higher performance, you also get similar instead of inferior fuel consumption levels, and retain the clean burning characteristics of LPG.
--
Carl Robson
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There's something wrong with your ideas. LPG or Propane is a shorter chain molecule than petrol and therefore will have a lower flash point than petrol, requiring if anything lower compression and certainly not more advanced timing than petrol. Increasing boost pressure allows more fuel to be burnt giving more power, but at the expense of greater fuel usage. So you still end up with only 85% efficiency compared to petrol. Don't forget what happened when the EU tried to get diesel engines to run on any fuel from diesel to petrol, after getting over the injection pump wear issues, it was found that petrol was sticking to the cylinder walls instead of a clean burn and a 25mpg diesel engine would only give about 13mpg when used with petrol.
--
Clive

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writes

Clive,
Chemically you describe things correctly but you said there is no gain from mixing LPG with gasoline, that is just your theory, it isn't a reality. I gain 8-10mpg on top of my 50mpg. Remember Gasoline and Propane are present at the same time, you get a quick and long burning stroke. LPG burns first then its heat burns any unburnt Gasoline making each stroke a more complete burn.
When I shut off my LPG tank, I can see a drop in horse power and in fuel efficiency by about 10mpg. 1-gallon of LPG is good for 14gallons of Gasoline. Any way do google for propane tanks for trucks, I've found a manufacturer in US selling them quite expensive around $900 a tank to be used with the same technique. Also do a search on a patent site, someone already file a patent for this idea.
I don't think mixing LPG for diesel engine is a good idea but I could be wrong.
The only thing I don't like about selling LPG mixture with Gasoline to general public is, it's dangerous with the way people handling the tank. Customers can blew themselves up easily and blame their problem on someone else.
GasSaver
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Rubbish, the amount of fuel introduced into the cylinders is a stoichiometric ratio for complete combustion, adding more hydrocarbons (that's what LPG is) will destroy this mixture and lead to unburned fuel pouring out of the exhaust, polluting the atmosphere and costing money to the person that try's.

Just because you've filed a patent, it doesn't stop it being rubbish.

You'd be right, considering that diesel engines are compression ignition engines the chances of pre-ignition with LPG in the air could seriously damage the whole drive chain.

As cars can be bought on the open market as LPG or petrol at the flick of a switch known as Duel Fuel cars, again you are talking rubbish, or would that be garbage in your broken English.

--
Clive

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snipped-for-privacy@yewbank.demon.co.uk says...

Diesel works just fine *with* LPG as additive, rather than LPG instead of diesel in a diesel engine.
It works in a similar way on tuned diesel engines that nitrous oxide works on petrol engines. And just like the petrol equivalent, it works much better on forced induction engines than normally aspirated.
--
Carl Robson
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snipped-for-privacy@Extra150miles.com says...

Running LPG as an additive rather than an alternative fuel in a high pressure boosted over fueled diesel turbo can work in a similar way to nitrous oxide in a petrol car.
Turbo diesels reach a point where even with the boost up they can't suck in enough air to get enough oxygen to burn cleanly hence big soot on drag racing tractors and diesel dragsters and circuit racing trucks.
Injecting propane not only gives an additional fuel burst, it also releases extra oxygen that can help with the excess diesel and remove some of the subsequent black smoke.
--
Carl Robson
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If they can't suck in enough oxygen then LPG will make the problem even worse.
--
Clive

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snipped-for-privacy@Extra150miles.com says...

You mean you can convert one form of energy into another. Thats the law.
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Carl Robson
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snipped-for-privacy@yewbank.demon.co.uk says...

Seriously, look into proper LPG optimisation.
LPG has a lower calorific value so requires more fuel, but has a higher octane so can handle more advance and compression before pre-ignition.
Using sequential injection rather than a simple gas ring in the inlet and the correct ignition and compression (or artificially raised through forced induction) you can at least equal petrol efficiency.
It isn't rocket science, LPG is the ideal for for turbo boosting and because of the better resistance to knock, you don't need to over-richen the mixture to reduce the risk of knock. Petrol and diesel engines very often run massively rich under boost to cool the engine to keep the knock down.
--
Carl Robson
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You've been reading too many comic books, or perhaps you just believe everything you read.
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Clive

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snipped-for-privacy@yewbank.demon.co.uk says...

Just experience that manufacturers would rather throw your fuel, at providing extra protection, than their money at providing a replacement engine. They cover their own arses by using slight overfueling, using the additional fuel to cool the piston tops and avoid knock. It is a standard practice because production engines are no where near blueprinted and vary enough that you can't fine tune for varying driver use and the life of the vehicle.
My old Celica GT4 (all-trac) used to cover the read valance with black soot (it was petrol) even though the emisions were well within the UK fairly strict MOT standards, it even ran rich after the boost was upped by 5PSI, right to the safe limit of the standard toyota fueling map/headgasket.
--
Carl Robson
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I currently drive a car that's 8+ years old and has 90K+ miles on it - hoping to keep it for 2-3 more years. I feel that car technology could change significantly over the next several years - not sure it's worth buying a new gas or even hybrid vehicle now.
Boris
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