Re: Mercedes-Benz hit with suit

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DAS --

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In being of bellicose mind posted:

Absolutely false, DAS. Sorry. There have been many American and Japanese gasoline models sold here over the past 20+ years that have benefitted from turbo charging. Furthermore, Toyota TRD offers belt driven superchargers for an array of gasoline engines in the Toyota lineup.
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* Philip

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being of bellicose mind posted:

Get real Philip! Turbochargers are fitted to a tiny minority of petrol engines yet about 99% or more of today's diesels. In fact the number of factory turbo petrol engines available has probably declined over the past ten years. Are not the TRD turbo's bolt-on kits? They are not available here and would not sell in any quantity if they were. The point is, who cares if a particular component is fitted to an engine hidden under the hood? It is a means to an end and is never even mentioned on diesels any longer. All that counts is the engines power output/performance and its competitive position in a range of engines plus refinement and economy.
Huw
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In being of bellicose mind

Geat Real, Huw! You're starting to sound quite 'Valley Girl'. ;-> I'm responding to DAS's dismissal of turbos as being ineffective on gasoline engines ... not their population. But thank you for pointing out the obvious.

TRD superchargers are "bolt-ons." What did you expect? Glue-ons with a decal? The TRD kits are application specific and .... are EPA emissions certified for street applications in California. How about that? ;-) Take a look at the TRD opening page:
http://www.trdusa.com /

YOU don't know what -would- sell. One thing you're not Huw is a salesman. LOL.
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being of bellicose mind

about
many
and
I do think he is mistaken that they do not offer a benefit because if done properly a turbo petrol engine is very good. Saab, Volvo and Vauxhall have excellent turbo petrol engines tuned for low end torque. Some of the ones tuned for higher top end performance have awfull flat spots and are thoroughly unpleasant to drive.
But thank you for

You are very welcome.

EPA
about
Like I said, they are kits. These things compromise engine longevity and reliability when used with most engines. Factory turbo engines have all kinds of upgrades to cope with the power. They also have upgraded transaxles and brakes.

Well that shows how much you know LOL. For my sins and apart from anything else, I am deeply involved in sales and service, property and agriculture.
Huw
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In being of bellicose mind

Without question. As a compromise, the TRD units are not pushing 20lbs of boost either. AS you know, bolt-ons must be compromised. Were the installation done from the ground up, the compression would be quite low and the engine's entire bottom end beefier with additional lubrication measures. I did post a link that details a TRD supercharger experience that appeared to be pretty objective on the nuts and bolts of such a project. Oh... here it is:
http://www.gadgetonline.com/Super.htm

How is property and agriculture germain to aftermarket turbocharging of personal cars? Nice try though! ;-)
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"Philip" <>

You miss the point. The point is that I am actually involved in sales, with no relation to agriculture, property or construction plant, on an almost daily basis. I even do a certain amount of 'cold calling' when sales are slow. I am intimately involved with motors and engines of all kinds, although I do contract major repairs out. When I have the time I do my own routine servicing on my personal small fleet.
Huw
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In being of bellicose mind posted:

Do you sell automotive products to The Public in person? Do you have to persuade The Public in person? Good thing you're not doing "cold calls" in America as recent law would have you on the short end of expensive lawsuits. LOL No doubt you've heard.
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being of bellicose mind posted:

Yes and a limited yes.
Good thing you're not doing

end
My cold calls are based on intelligence, so are more 'luke warm' than 'stone cold' and usually involve professionals rather than random Joe Public in city streets LOL. Mainly I only try and sell to those that have expressed an interest or who I have intelligence which indicates a high disposable income potential.
Huw
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On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:06:10 -0000, "Huw"

I love those 'luke warm' sales calls!
...I also love people with high disposable income potential!
Sales is changing 'potential' into a check <g>. I think you guys across the pond may spell 'check' a tad different, but you get the drift!
Sales is what makes the world go around. If it isn't sold...nobody works <g>
Scott in Florida
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being of bellicose mind posted:

construction
with
on
than
Joe
that
indicates
Yes, cheques are great as long as they are not bouncy.

Got to keep money circulating or it goes mouldy LOL.
Huw
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In being of bellicose mind

Retail is retail no matter the locale. (argh). "high disposable income..." Ever have any luck selling to a poor person? LOL.
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being of bellicose mind

in
you
Quite often as it happens. 'Finance' is a wonderful tool.
Huw
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Perhaps I didn't make my point clearly enough. Like many things in life there is no black-and-white answer. Turbo on petrol can give a benefit in certain circumstances but, if there were an across-the-board advantage, I think we would see more of them, even in Europe. As there isn't, we don't, a point underlined by Huw.
IIRC BMW did offer turbocharged petrol/gas engines at the top end a decade or two ago but dropped the idea. (Wasn't the first 745 a turbocharged 735 or something like it?)
DAS --
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In being of bellicose mind posted:

Huw has given several long term examples of very good (tractable) turbo petrol cars. Turbos "over here" are marketed as performance items .... not a necessity. From the early '80's that I know of, BMW has been of the mind that turbos belong on diesels. End of statement. This does not preclude BMW from building turboed petrol cars, only a statement of their commitment.
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And what does the T mean still used in most Diesel models?
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You mean VW who identify their diesels with a TDi badge? It obviously means 'turbo' but most marques do not use it any longer. Toyota call theirs D4D. No 'T' from Toyota LOL. My Toyota does not even mention it being a diesel on the back and neither does my X5. Mercedes call theirs CDi. Do you think they fit a turbo? Toyota D4D as fitted to Corolla is available with and without aftercooling. Do they bother to point this out either on the car or to the majority of customers? No.
Your arguments are increasingly fatuous and inaccurate Neo.
Huw
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And Ford, and Fiat, etc...

So it does, doesn't it? Then again, you had to add a "but"...

Really? You posted facts contradicting everything I said, right?
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MB offers the turbocharged CL, Audi several RS models, Bentley and Rolls Royce ditto, etc.

Au contraire, remember F1 and F-Indy...
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manufacturers,
turbocharged
Is it not supercharged. Not that it matters if turbo's are correctly configured.
Huw
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