Re: The G-Wagen marches in

The British army is planning to replace 10 000 Land Rover Defenders. Guess

> what's a front runner.. G-Wagen! > >
formatting link
> Below my signature I am pasting the whole article (from the Sunday Times UK) > for those who can't follow the link. > > DAS > > July 18, 2004 > > End of an icon > > Last post for an army hero > The British Army is thinking the unthinkable: ditching its > venerable Land Rover for a better equipped Mercedes model, reports Tom > Robbins of The Sunday Times > > > > > > > > After half a century, the Land Rover's position as the mainstay > vehicle of the British Army is about to come to an end. The Ministry of > Defence has begun a project to replace the current fleet of more than 10,000 > Land Rover Defenders with vehicles better equipped to deal with the changing > nature of modern war. > The Defence Procurement Agency is carrying out trials to decide > what to replace the Land Rover with. In a move that will shock patriotic > Land Rover enthusiasts, one of the frontrunners being considered is > Mercedes-Benz. > > Mercedes currently has no major contracts to supply tactical > vehicles to the military, but has set up a subsidiary - Mercedes-Benz UK > Defence - in order to win Ministry of Defence (MoD) business. Earlier this > month the division enjoyed a large presence at the Defence Vehicle Dynamics > 2004 show - a high-security, restricted-access motor show for the military. > > While military sales of the Land Rover are not crucial to the > business (the last big order was for 8,000 Defenders in 1995, whereas 28,315 > Defenders were made last year alone), the army's reliance on the vehicle in > almost every campaign since the end of the second world war has given it > massive goodwill and loyalty among civilian buyers. > > > > The war in Iraq has played an important part in convincing > military planners that the era of the Land Rover should be ended. Put > simplistically, in earlier wars, tanks and armoured vehicles would go into > battle and win the ground before the unarmoured Land Rovers would be moved > up to patrol the area. However, in Iraq, following the short campaign > involving tanks, the unarmoured Land Rovers patrolling the streets have been > subject to numerous ambushes and attacks, leaving soldiers keen to have more > protection. > > Adding armour means adding weight, and the problem is that Land > Rovers have a lower payload capacity than rivals. The current army Defender > has a payload of just over one ton, and after the weight of armour is added, > this leaves little capacity for troops and equipment. > > "One ton really isn't enough in the modern world," says Shaun > Connors, co-editor of Jane's Military Vehicles. > > Even without the need for armour, the Ministry of Defence is > looking for vehicles that can carry more, as modern soldiers have > ever-increasing amounts of high-tech equipment and weaponry. Some versions > of the Mercedes G-wagen can carry more than two tons. > > "Protection is becoming a big issue," says Nick Fox, the manager > of the Operational Utility Vehicle System (OUVS) project, which includes > replacing the existing Land Rover fleet. "If you're putting half a ton of > armour on a vehicle, plus the kit, plus the men, the payload becomes an > issue, and a light vehicle like a Land Rover is limited." > > The ministry has not ruled out replacing some of the Land Rovers > with newer versions, but experts believe this is unlikely in any great > number. At present it is not even clear what Land Rover could offer. > Industry experts say that the iconic Defender is set to be replaced, > probably around 2007, with a model based on the T5 platform used in the new > Discovery 3. This uses a monocoque (a combined body and chassis) for better > handling, whereas the Defender used a separate body and ladder-frame > chassis, making it easier for different bodies to be bolted on in different > military scenarios. "For military purposes, the new Discovery would be next > to useless," says Connors. > > The OUVS project covers the entire tactical support fleet of > vehicles capable of carrying up to a six-ton payload, and so will also see > the replacement of about 1,000 Pinzgauer off-roaders and about 850 of the > despised Reynolds-Boughton trucks. The decision on what will replace them is > expected around 2007, with the vehicles in use by 2009. It does not extend > to the "white fleet" of non-tactical vehicles - catering vehicles used on > army bases, for example - which will keep the Land Rovers already in use. > > The ministry has said it is keen to use one supplier to replace > all the vehicles in the OUVS range. This gives Mercedes, and its > DaimlerChrysler parent, a distinct advantage. > > > It can supply the G-wagen, the Unimog truck, and also stretched > and uprated versions of the Dodge Ram and Jeep Wrangler. British officers > recently visited Dodge in America to look at these vehicles. Defence > officials also see a global supply chain, such as DaimlerChrysler's, as an > advantage. > > But there are other contenders for the OUVS contract including > Iveco, the Italian truck maker, Ford, using its F350 pick-up, or a > third-party company such as Ricardo, using a combination of vehicles from > other marques. > > Land Rover believes there could be some business for it in the > OUVS programme, but with the future of the Defender uncertain, and the > ministry's exact requirements yet to be clarified, the company cannot say if > it is intending to bid for any of the business. > > "We are interested in military business," says Phil Wilson, Land > Rover's contracts and business development manager for government and > military operations. "The problem is that at the moment the MoD doesn't know > exactly what it wants. It has come up with a broad overview of the type of > vehicles needed, but nothing specific. It's a bit difficult for us, with our > current model programme, to see where we might fit in." > > > > -- > For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling > --- > >
Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling
Loading thread data ...

Does that mean Mercedes-Benz is rescinding the plan to supersede the W461/W463 with ML-derived G-Class in 2005/6? I think Mercedes-Benz ought to continue producing W461/W463 infinitely unless the EU regulation comes in full force in 2010, making the front end redesign prohibitive.

Dori A Schmetterling schrieb:

Reply to
Ennui Society

"Dori A Schmetterling" haute in die Tasten:

The funny thing with that story is that back in the 70's, when Mercedes and Puch developed the G-Model, they had military use as a main objective in their minds. Mercedes wanted to win a contract to the German Federal Army, which wanted to replace their funny DKW Munga (2-stroke engine!) and VW 181 (aka the "Thing" with 2WD) with a true all terrain vehicle. Much to the distraction of Mercedes, German Army decided to take the VW Iltis instead, a small four seater AWD car feshly developed for them. When I served my duty in 1982, I heard rumours that the government wanted to help VW out of financial trouble and that the politicians wanted to avoid bad PR for their soldiers cruising around in "expensive Mercedes cars". Actually the VW Iltis was somewhat capable, but extremely expensive (more expensive than a G-Wagen equipped to German Army specs). After VW had fulfilled the contract, they sold all the tools for that car to a company based in Canada. So the German Army had to buy its spare parts for that car in canada - what a nice thankyou for the help;-)

Somewhere in the 90's, Mercedes finally started to deliver G-Models for the German Army. Its NATO code is WOLF, and I have not heard anything bad about that car in soldier's hands. Since decades the french army is using a licensed version of the G-Wagen built by Peugeot with Peugeot engines. Actually, I think it would not be a bad idea, if NATO member countries would decide on using the same equipment if possible. This makes logistics easier.

FRank

Reply to
Frank Kemper

Peugeot P4 is easily to be recognized by the square headlights.

Some info in German language at

formatting link
some info in English at
formatting link

Juergen

Reply to
Juergen .

...Well, you wouldn'r expect the French miliraty to take anything 100% German (or British, for that matter), would you...?... :-)

I once read a comment that the only reason Peugeot builds big cars is because French government officials wouldn't be seen dead getting into Mercs...

Regarding standardisation of equipment within NATO, that's too sensible to be implemented... In any case, it would only happen if the equipment were US-made...

DAS

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.