repair costs on lexus vs. mercedes

True for the years that the writer is considering....but not of the '02 & '03 ES. That car, which I own, is in the same size category as the "E" Class Benz and in some dimensions actually bigger.

Have you driven the Lexus for any length of time? On paper you could take this pretty much anyway. Behind the wheel however, there is no comparison with an E-Class what-so-ever. Yes Mercedes maintanance is expensive but that is mostly at dealer. A good independent MB specialist can maintain the eClass at a resonable price.

Scott D

Qusetion on the repair cost issue here. Parts are no more expensive for a benz than they are for saab, bmw or vw, from my experience. Are they that much cheaper for Lexus?

Also, I try to do my own work, but the labor costs seem to be pretty standard across the board, no?

Then again, I'm in NYC, where everything is generrally equally overpriced....

You are right that the ES is Camry based. And that happens to be a GOOD thing. The old and no ES were not small cars, neither was the '87 E-class a large car. I think you will find that they are comparable in terms of passenger space.

Now as to ride quality for the ES, I happen to have a friend who owns a '92 Camry. It has 160,000 miles on it and is an upscale trim version. A couple a days ago he gave me a ride in it and I was very impressed with how very well it still road and with the lack of rattles and groans. The interior looked very good. No cracks in the leather. I strongly doubt that a M-B of the same vintage would have been any better. This was a Camry. I'd bet you that the ES would be even better. Nobody builds cars that hold up better than Toyota. That absolutely includes M-B, Audi, and BMW.

There's really no way to respond to this post. Comapring Camrys and Camry based ES's to E-classes is like comparing....I don't know, I can't even come up with an analogy for it. Toyotas are the most reliable cars out there, no doubt. If you can't tell the difference between the ride of a Camry or ES and an E-class, a 5-series or an A6, your decision should be pretty simple. If you can, as most car people can, than you will be dissapointed with the ride...that's all I'm sayin'... hope it helps...

Go on Ebay and look at a 1986 e-class, then look at a 1986 camry......Still think they are comparable??? (Rhetorical question)

In reply to:

My comments were meant to address reliability/maintenance costs... as for styling... MB is tops (in my book anyway!).

Chris: I owned a '90 SPG up until last year. Still dear to me ;-)

Comparing an older E class Benz to the earlier ES Lexus will reveal the similarities and differences of each marque (rear wheel or front wheel drive, weights and dimensions, MSRP, cash value after five years, ownership costs, etc.). However I would say the real questions to address is how does each drive, and how does one feel driving. (More than any statistical comparison I think that is what really distinguishes the two cars.)

As for the argument that the ES "is a Camry", I would suggest comparing the two directly:

Hope this helps

Love those old saabs- was just looking to get a newer 900, but realized while driving a few that saab no longer exists as w knew and loved it. It's just another gm brand now. (with the exception of the 9-5 which is still a saab).

Agreed- the only way to really distinguish is to drive them. I should have been clearer on the camry comments. I'm not up on the 2003 lexus & camry. Don't know if they're still the same car. In the mid 90's though, they were the same car. Same exact car, except for trim levels. Just badge engineered, like gm in the 80's.

well, yes and no. one time I went to the dealer to get a quote for a turn signal. aside from the cost of the part, he was including a charge for labor to install. it was. 0.25 hours. He wanted to charge fifteen minutes of labor at $90/hr to install the turn lamp. I ended up buying the part from a junk yard, and the installation took me literally less than one minute. The dealer, I've found is almost universally more expensive than indy mechanics in my area (Austin, TX)

In alt.auto.mercedes Phillip Schmid wrote: [...]

Where I live, A/C is not an option, it's a necessity. We average over 100 days a year of 100+ degree temperatures. It'll be 116 here tomorrow.

Lights dimming is *nothing* compared to losing your A/C in the desert. That can be life-threatening.

--Paul

Hmmmm. My dealer does stuff like that for free. I can just drop by and they'll just do it. Course the $5000 worth of repairs (covered by my extended warranty) and the additional $1000 (not covered - out of pocket) probably helps.

MCBRUE wrote: (MB vs Lexus)

Next S will be a little big bigger again.

Yes, it definiteyl is _extremely_ expensive.

Interesting that in yesterday's issue of German car mag _auto motor und sport_ reader's letters addressing the test of the Maybach 62 in the issue two weeks earlier had a very negative tone about the Maybach like _profitable fraudulent labelling_ and _miles away from Bentley_ or _less character then the cheapest French car_. All-in-all the readers clearly stated they would prefer a Rolls_Royce or a Bentley for the same money. And imagine this: I live in one of Germany's biggest cities - if I had a Maybach it would have to be transported ca. 300 km by truck each time it needed service or repairs. No thanks, the nearest Rolls and Bentley dealers are in town!

Juergen - having a garage for cars up to 5.00 m only

Excellent independent MB specialists can be found. There is one near me who only works on MBs, and always does the job right the first time. Labor is quite reasonable and well in line with what friends pay for their Nissans and Fords. He does however use only MB parts.

Most new cars including lexus have more complicated electronics not just Mercedes.

My dealer days ended when after paying $600 for a major service, and found the old spark plugs still in the head!

Ummmm where do you live?

Don't understand what you mean by asking me to look at old Camry's vs. old E-class on eBay. If you mean the E will cost more, OK, it cost (a lot) more when it was new, was more likely to be pampered with pricey maintenance, and has much more snob appeal. An old Roller would have even more snob and cost more than a Merc and it would be an even worse car for someone who wanted a reliable ride. So what?

On the other hand you are right that comparing a Camry (or an ES) with an E-class is not really fair. The E-Class was much more expensive. In the early '90's the E-Class competed with the Lexus LS and the LS beat it severely about the head and shoulders. No question. None. Zip. Nada.

If you don't want to believe J.D. Power, then go look at Consumer Reports and read their owner survey results. They closely parallel the J. D. Power results. You can doubt those results, too. Some people like to make up excuses when confronted with a reality they don't like. Does not change the reality, though.

Lexus is not a older person's brand any more than MB or BMW are. They all cost too much for most young people to buy. All the brands know this, are a little threatened by it and are doing something to try to deal with it, especially BMW.

Toyotas problem is that they have almost always chosen to build extremely reliable, but not very exciting cars. There are exceptions like the Supra (especially the TT which is still a living legend in California street racing circles), some Celicas, the MR2, but not many. All Toyota needs to fix their image problem is to build something like the WRX or Evo that young drivers can afford (or at least aspire to) and that is fun to drive. They certainly can do it if they want, but the corporate culture seems against it. The spin-off brand of off-beat inexpensive cars aimed at the young unemployed male is an interesting (goofy?) idea which I suspect will fail. Hope so. Then maybe they'll try the WRX halo-effect approach.

Someone posted here asking for information about mid nineties ES's vs. e-classes, and your response is that your friend has a great old camry, and LS's are better than E-classes.... Did anybody ask?

Have you ever driven a '95 ES or an '87 e-class? That info would be on topic here.

Now you've changed topic and are comparing e-classes to LS's. I guess that's what you do when you realize you made a ridiculous argument. Change course in mid stream.You said that e-classes and camrys were comparabable in passenger space, which is true. You said that an older e-class wouldn't be any better than your friends old camry. Not true. In terms of performance, safety, handling and ride, the cars are incomparable. Come on, admit it...its ok.

Take your rant somewhere else.....

You seem to be very concerned about snob appeal- must be some sort of inferiority complex. I've had three Benzes, and they've all been amazing cars, granted none newer than a 1986. I will continue to drive them until they fail me. They haven't yet. You seem to have a problem with that- where does snob appeal fit into my reasoning?

Mercedes Benz is considered an old persons brand in Europe. Indeed, when I first took my crappy car back for creaking from windscreen, dashboard, and door pillars the salesman who sold me my car said "most of our customers are so old they don't notice faults like that"!!!!!