The rise and rise of diesel

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Dori A Schmetterling wrote:


We have backlash against wind farms here too, but nothing like the backlash against nuclear anything. No one dares to build a new nuclear plant in the US.
I'm all for nuclear power except for two things. One, no one knows the true cost, because the nuclear industry is so enmeshed with secret defense programs. Two, it continues the unhealthy trend toward larger and fewer power plants, and a grid that's too insecure and failure prone.
I say we upgrade the power grid to allow distributed power generation -- small plants everywhere, and meters able to run backward. This would allow homeowners and businesses with solar systems, micro-hydro, natural gas fuel cells and microturbines, clean hybrid cars, etc., to sell power back to the grid. Distributed generation makes for a more robust and fail-safe grid, and eliminates transmission losses (10-15%) and costs. Technology improvements could be more rapid because they could happen incrementally, rather than with construction of multi-billion-dollar plants every few decades.
Matt O.
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live in the north of Scotland and I think there's enough wind up here to justify a lot more wind turbines than currently exist. I also happen to feel that they are aesthetically pleasing and have a certain relaxing quality when viewed in operation, no bad thing in this day and age. Oh, and I'm not a NIMBY, I'd happily have one on my doorstep if it gave us cleaner energy. Badger.
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Badger wrote:

I quite agree with you about the aesthetics and really cannot understand the "they're so ugly" mentality, especially compared with almost any city-scape. I recently cruised round Denmark and Scandanavia and they've got loads of the things dotted about - as ever the rest of Europe romps ahead of stick-in-the-mud UK.
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Indeed, just like personal taxes, corporate taxes, and unemployment. Good stuff!
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On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:24:07 +0100, "Badger"

problem
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The funny thing about those politically biased posings is that the guys who abuse a car forum for their political struggles never manage to avoid excessive quoting. Seems to be beyond their intellectual capabilities;-)
Go and vote for a proper president, and the world will love America again.
Frank
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Frank, it is asinine to believe being loved by the rest of the world (particularly France or Germany) is high on the average American's agenda. At the most, a US president can serve for 8 years. That's rather short term in the scheme of things global. So if you dislike me or my country, because of who the President is, then you're an idiot.
And it is your assumption of moral superiority that disallows the prospect of you ever recognizing that.
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I think America is in bad shape right now, and the current administration is responsible for that. I know of quite a number of businessmen, who refuse to make business trips to the US because they are fed up with being treated like a criminal at the customs. From what I read about the polls, it is anything but sure that Bush will make a second run. When my political awareness became somewhat serious, the Nixon administration was in charge, so I have seen presidents come and go. But I have never seen one administration alter the foreign opinion about the US so drastically as the Bush administration did.
Okay, it is up to you, but if I had to decide between Kerry and Bush, I'd hesitate not a second and choose the other guy.
My personal like or dislike of America has not changed. I visited the US four times in the 90's, three times for vacation, one time for business. It was sad to hear that states like Florida did not succeed in changing their election tools to a modern standard, so there might be a chance that there will be another desastrous election scandal in November, but I simply believe that most Americans are fed up with that guy as much as I am.
Frank (Oh boy, this definitely is off topic)
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haute in die Tasten:

Depends on what you are talking about. Economically we created a 4.5 % increase in GDP over the last year while the Euro Zone did 1.3%. Over the past decade the average annual numbers are similar. Our unemployment rate is 5.7 per cent, yours is 10.5%. Europe is generally overtaxed, overregulated and has created a welfare system that discourages work, and in places like Germany entrepreneurship is discouraged by your country's archaic guild mentality. Most Europe's retirement and health-care system is on the verge of collapse and price controls throughout the EU has chased some very important R&R business back to the US.
We are in line with our economic relationships and commitments while Germany is shamelessly ignoring the very economic rules they and France established with in the EU, because it would harm them to comply at this juncture. In economic terms you are complacent, and then indignant at the resulting diminished role in world affairs. And the only thing you have left to do is be a hindrance. Sometimes I think the two largest economies in Europe have no optimism whatsoever because you believe being judgmental implies moral superiority.
If you are talking about how we are managing internal security, well we are plainly on new territory. No one could approach the security problems we have domestically without some resulting, and complex, intrigue. The fact that you are so quick to be judgmental is just a sad comment on your understanding of the whole situation. We will get it right and if your business friends don't want to come here, they are quite free to do business elsewhere. We don't demand anyone show up and suffer through our current state of flux where domestic security and security measures are concerned.
If you are talking about our international relationships and actions, well our relationships will survive. Our actions (though I personally saw no need for abandoning Afghanistan and attacking Iraq) will ultimately work out for the Iraqi people. Countries that were vehement in their opposition to us these past years will either come around to being our friend again or they won't. And while it is important to keep our friends, it is rather unimportant once they have established that they are not our friend.
One of the US's largest problems has been that we suffer the whining of certain governments in Europe just to remain on friendly terms. That era is over. And just as importantly, in Europe you might win an election based on an anti-American platform, but you cannot maintain a government premised on that position. Ask Schroeder.

I am not a Bushie, but it is a stretch to suggest he won't win. He has all the cards. He acts and Kerry can only be re-act. It's unfortunate, but it is the way it is. Catch bin Laden, save the US from another major terrorist attack, or suffer another major terrorist attack, see vast improvement in Iraq...any of those things will put Bush over the top. Our government is no longer one of ideas, but one of partisanship, and the Republicans are better organized on that front than the Democrats will ever be. The very nature of each parties platform dictates that.
I hope to see in my lifetime a government of ideas again. but it will take a sea change in the House and Senate for that to happen and until we have term limits the likelihood is small.

Then you were not awake during Nixon's time. He went way down and then came way back up. Bush is a polarizing figure, and I am not pleased that he is our President, but he was dealt a hand that no one ever, who sat in that office, had to face. It is impossible that he could satisfy everyone and anyone. The choices to be made were that disparate.

It's not up to me...I voted for the guy who got the most votes, and still lost. Don't be so smug.

Well your comments indicate you don't understand the electoral process enough to call anything scandalous and disastrous. If we truly had a one man one vote system, Florida would not have mattered. But as long as the Electoral College is in place these types of election results will always be possible.
I voted for Gore, but Colorado went Bush. That means my vote never left the state line. Never mattered to the general election, never counted towards the man who was the popular winner. That is the area that most upsets me, not issues like Florida being unable to implement more secure voting in a matter of 4 years. They'll get it right, but when they do they want to be certain they get it right once, and by necessity, only once. If you know much about it you realize it is quite difficult for Florida to implement a system that is definitively accurate and secure in a way their current system is not.

Well, you'd be wrong. In fact on the point of issues that cause you to dislike him he has a great majority behind him. Where he falls short is on domestic issues, which I doubt are the reasons for you being "fed up" with him. That's the biggest hurdle for Kerry, to make the nation look away from the newspapers and televisions, and concentrate on domestic issues in the race. Unfortunately, given the vast coverage of the wars and terrorism, that is a very tough thing to do.
But back to the point in hand. Don't be so quick to think some or parts of our policies will any longer be predicated upon whether or not Europe likes us anymore. I think the people in the US, while at one time finding the Atlantic Alliance comforting and even necessary, no longer think that way as a matter of course. Now there is going to have to be something in it for us. France and Germany made that a certain result. But in the end I suspect it hurts them more than it could ever hurt the US. And that is a shame.
Compared to most of the world the US is in great shape, regardless of what it is Europe wants to see when looking our way.
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If I were you, I would not be satisfied with a comparison to others. I have not compared the US with other countries, I have compared it with its state before GWB (I know that Germany is in no good shape at the moment either). IMHO the US was better off with Bill Clinton. And today it feels strange to me, that Clinton almost lost his job over a sexual relationship which both participants joined in voluntarily, while GWB who has told lies to his people, the UNO, the world about weapons of mass destruction, still is in charge. Let's hope the american people correct this error in November;-)
Frank
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I think it is not my limited knowledge of your language which lets sound this sentence rather arrogant to me.
EOD
Frank
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haute in die Tasten:

I think so too. It is arrogant. And in the case of our relations with some European countries it is time we make decisions based on issue rather than how good or bad France or Germany feel about themselves.
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Please don't tar the UK with that brush. UK GDP growth and unemployment - howsoever achieved - are much closer to the US's than the rest of the EU. (Eurozone is usually used to describe the countries which use the Euro, rather than the EU as a whole.)
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It wasn't my intention to include Britain. I have been diving with a group of Brits for well over 20 years and they still remind me, whenever possible, to not include them with the rest of Europe.....they are not European. I have learned to bow to their expertise on this point :^)
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Badger wrote:

This is true per capita, but that's only because they can't all afford cars and big homes with HVAC systems and modern appliances. But those who can afford them use two-stroke motor scooters, and cars with no emissions controls. Electric power comes from coal-fired power plants, again with no emissions controls, nor are there any controls on industrial processes. Because of rampant corruption, any controls that do exist are circumvented or ignored. The air in cities like Beijing and Bangkok is filthy, certainly worse than any American city.
Matt O.
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That poster didn't limit their comment to auto emissions, they said "polluters". So that covers a lot more concerns that auto emissions only.
And in many ways he was correct. The worst polluting countries in this world are not the most developed and efficient, but rather the least efficient. And the US is not at the top of that list. Another thing to consider is that recent investigation has shown that ethnic Chinese, regardless of where they live or move to, inevitably develop into the hightest contributory group. So he was right in some ways on that point as well.
On the other hand, one could claim that the most consumptive populations are effectively exporting their pollution by buying goods from less industrially developed (meaning worst polluters) countries. In this case the bottom line says that if the consuming country didn't create the demand, the polluting country would not create the supply. Under this scenario one could claim the US was the worlds's greatest polluter, even though the generation of that poolution didn't occur on US soil or by US workers.
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127.0.0.1 wrote:

Put together, the "europeans" and the "asians" account for probably more than 2.5 billion people. Together, they might pollute more than the 300 million Americans. But the 300 million Americans do somehow manage to account for more pollution than any other single country. That's the only point. When most Chinese are rich enough to own a 5liter engined SUV then China will rule the pollution playground. But that's not the case yet.
Given that, not all blame is to fall on the U.S. Most Europeans drive cars (albeit smaller and more economical) and use fossil fuels. Who are we kidding? I guess it's the willingness to do something about it that counts....
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wrote:

essentially the same thing
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The heating oil and diesel are the same, except for the colour. Heating oil = red; diesel = yellow
And if Customs catches you using heating oil instead of diesel: well ... you get a fine! Needless to say it is a big one ;-)
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by GM's inept designs. So long as most people remember those things, the future of diesel passenger cars is cloudy. Jim
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