The rise and rise of diesel

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I thought this has to do with today's ultra-high emission standards, which can only be met by high-tech diesel cars, which will depend on high-quality low sulphur diesel which is not available at every station. When I was in the US last time (1998), I saw quite a few old Mercedes W123, most of them Coupés, with diesel engine (Mercedes never sold them that way in Germany).
I see another big problem with the rise of Diesel sales. In my understanding Diesel fuel is one fraction which falls off during the production of normal car fuel. So the amount of diesel available depends on the amount of fuel produced generally. If the sales of Diesel cars rise sharply, while the sales of other cars drop down, oil companys may run short on diesel while having too much other fuel.
Frank
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The GM problem was that they simply used a gas engine and convert it to a diesel...weak engine and tons of problem that scared people away from diesel. Probably a conspiracy.
Diesel is the first product that comes out of refining crude oil... the least amount of effort or energy to produce... so it should be cheaper.
The probability of diesel fuel short production due to high amount of diesel engine sold in US is not likely. The shortage of diesel fuel due to extremely cold winter that put high demand on heating oil is a good possibility.
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Tiger wrote:

To be fair, other diesels of the era weren't so great either. The VW and BMW diesels sold in the US were converted gasoline designs, and also had trouble with head gaskets, etc. Neither was as long-lived as a true diesel either. Same with Peugeot, Audi and Volvo. While the Volvos and Audis weren't as troublesome, they weren't any longer-lived than their gasoline counterparts.

They'll always find a way to meet market demand, but the connection to home heating oil is true -- diesel prices always go up in winter. The colder the winter, the more they go up.
I look forward to more Euro-diesels being available in the US in the coming years. VW TDI are already selling at a huge premium, both new and used. It's not just the current gas prices that are driving it, either -- it's people finally discovering how good these vehicles are, after years of being deprived of them. There's nothing like chugging over a mountain pass with a full load and the AC on, without having to downshift, or even touch the cruise control.
Matt O.
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Dori A Schmetterling wrote:

No price advantage per se, but you get up to a 50% return on your "investment" in terms of miles per gallon which is what attracts people to Diesel.
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Up to 50% seems to be quite optimistic, I'd rather take a 30% advantage, which still is quite impressive. But you have to take into consideration: Shorter service intervals, more complex technology (turbocharger, high pressure injection system), higher insurance rates (at east here in germany), sometimes higher car prices...
As a rule of thumb you save money with a diesel car in germany, when you travel at least 15.000 miles per year. If germany would not have lower taxes on diesel fuel, figures would look way worse.
BTW: savings depend on the type of car. A comparison made by german car mag ams said, that a Diesel Mercedes is the better choice in every case.
Frank
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Frank Kemper wrote:

Right now in the US, resale value is *much* better for the diesel VWs. This is actually a bigger factor in TCO than the fuel savings.
Matt O.
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Frank Kemper wrote:

into
VW and GM diesels have 30,000 mile potential service intervals while their petrol engines have a 20,000 interval. Also Mercedes and BMW diesels have longer service intervals than petrol equivilents in practice.
more complex technology

In some areas. Petrol engines are less reliable though.
higher insurance

Not a problem elsewhere. I wonder why German insurance companies load the premium?
sometimes higher car prices...

Sometimes. Not always and it differs from one market to another I suppose.

This is all political. They do not want to lose tax income because of the increased economy. The engines are priced according to what the manufacturer can get away with and to match demand with supply.

I could barely live with the C Class four cylinder diesel. It just does not pull from low revs. No such problems with the five and six cylinder ones I have tried.
Huw
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Huw wrote:

It has nothing to do with the diesel engine directly: In Germany every car - which means every single engine variant - is categorized individually by adding all insurance payments nationwide within the last calculation period (one year).
And as diesel engined cars tend to drive more kms a year = tend to have more accidents than the gasoline variants it is very likely these cars cause higher costs to the insurance companies which then leads to higher insurance premiums.
The insurance premiums are adjusted every year at the beginning of October.
There is three different catgegories for each car: Haftpflicht - pays damage done to others; compulsory Teilkasko - pays for own car in case of e.g. theft; voluntary Vollkasko - pays for damage on own car when accident is own fault; voluntary
All categories can be seen online at http://www.typklassen.de /
Juergen
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Juergen . wrote:

load
There are some twenty insurance groups in the UK and all cars fall into one of these, some with extra restrictions imposed, such as 'known drivers only' or with a minimum driver age applied.

With the rising popularity of diesels in the UK, I do not believe that diesel cars tend to accululate mileage faster than petrol cars any longer. Maybe some, and there may be a small insurance premium, but nothing significant to the running cost of the car that I have noticed. Mind you, I do tend to run cars with high insurance ratings anyway.

'Third party' cover in the UK. Also compulsory.

'Third party, fire and theft'.

'Comprehensive', which is highly recommended for any car with a substantial value.

Thanks.
Huw
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My point exactly; it's not only the cheaper fuel.
In the 'old' days you could argue more reliable, longer-lasting engines but with modern, complicated turbocharged diesel engines and better petrol engines I am not sure this would apply any more.
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Well engineered my ass.
36 MPG of diesel filling the air with nitrous oxide and various carcinogens.
Just another way of polluting the atmosphere, better than the former poor performance but way below acceptable.
Great car though for the wanna look wealthy.
Today, showing disregard for the public welfare (I'm outtta here in the biggest and fastest, smell my fumes!) is the best way there is for indicating wealth.
Maybe members of the new Texas-Iraqi government would like one too.
Since diesel fuel takes more than twice as much crude oil per gallon to make it is a real oil price booster. That 36 is more like 15 mpg in a normal gas vehicle. May as well drive a big Lincoln SUV or a USA Flagged Hummer.
Of course more than likely having learned everything from the auto industry controlled press no one here has actually driven a 60mpg hybrid vehicle and experienced something really new. The average Jaguar owner isn't usually too curious.
Or not?
Ldap, Speaking directorly
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On 2 Jul 2004 00:02:16 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (truth4sale) wrote:

please don't feed this troll
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