Yikes! Diesel $4.50/gallon

Page 1 of 5  
Today I emerged from our hovel to find diesel at $4.50/gallon and Premium gas at $4.10/gallon. And I bought a diesel for economy???
But that was 1980, before the world went insane.
(S.F. Bay Area prices)
--

2008 T.G.Lambach. Publication in any form requires prior written
permission.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
T.G. Lambach wrote:

At this point it may be worth swinging down to Costco to see how much the soybean oil is. When I was buying it new it was running around $15 for a 35lb jug, and Google tells me that soybean oil runs around 7.5# per gallon which led me to compute them as 4.5-4.7 gallons. When I started down this path I'd pour one or two jugs in before heading down to the fuel station, and ran ~50% mix of veggie oil. (and wow, did the fuel filters turn black quick those first few weeks!)
However, since so much petroleum goes into the production of soybeans, the cost is likely fairly rigidly linked to the price of fuel, so it may be up to $18 now; haven't checked since I started dragging it away from some of the restaurants I frequent. I could say pretty certainly though that doing that is not enormously cost effective given the time I spend dealing with fueling my car, but my reasons for doing it are other than money. An hour or so a week dealing with it, plus filters and general mess to deal with, plus a garage that smells like a fryer to displace maybe $50 or $60 (also weekly, between the two cars&drivers) of hassle-free pumping at the station. On the flip side, the cars run smooth as silk, entirely unaffected by the removal of sulfur from petrodiesel.
-tom!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Tom Plunket turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

Tom - what system do you have and what car?
I've been investegating this - more for the fact that I *can* do it than the money.
--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

powered by the lizard: www.opensuse.org
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
PerfectReign wrote:

The Lovecraft one. I just paid them to put it in for me, but it's a pretty straight forward install if you don't mind drilling a couple of holes in the body (to mount the filter) and don't have a problem putting Ts into the coolant lines in a couple of places (all of the hardware is included).
-tom!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Tom Plunket turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

thanks for the answer - i'd be curious to hear your experiences so far. I'm looking at getting a 300d in the next few months and have plans to either put in a two-tank system (such as frybrid or greasel) or a one-tank system such as lovecraft or elsbett.
Also, what are you running in the tank? Are you at 10% WVO/SVO? 50%? 80%?
--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

powered by the lizard: www.opensuse.org
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The bit about Greenspan thinking zero Federal Debt would be bad was from a very short snippet of a Larry King interview I happened to hit upon when channel surfing when Greenspan was out selling his recently published book.
I have no intention of buying Greenspan's book. Perhaps those mindless automatons who still worship at the Project for a New American Century/American Enterprise Institute altar have already purchased the book by Reagan's Great Rudderman who never took his hand off Reagan's tiller and they should read it for themselves.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

OK, on Larry King's show, Alan Greenspan makes a comment that zero federal debt would be bad, and that get turned into this:
"The bankers whose friends and associates profit from lending the U.S. government the money when the budget runs a deficit were panicked (Alan Greenspan has written about this) that the Clinton era tax and spending levels, if continued, would result in ZERO debt, something Greenspan saw as potentially disastrous. Yeah - disastrous for all his buddies who make enormous profits loaning our government the same money they should be paying in taxes. "
Let's see what an independent source like the BBC says about where Greenspan stood on reducing the federal debt:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/the_economy/411973.stm "But in a change of tack last month, the Clinton administration indicated that it was also prepared to consider using some of the surplus to reduce the overall government debt.
Such a course of action has long been advocated by Alan Greenspan, the influential chairman of the US central bank, the Federal Reserve.
He argues that reducing government debt should take priority over tax cuts, as the move will free funds for private investment and lower government spending."
That summary is consistent with everything I've heard Greenspan say in testimony to Congress, speeches and interviews.
In other words, you've again taken something you don't understand at all, and with jaundiced views, turned it into something it isn't. Greenspan is right that zero federal debt would be a bad thing for a number of reasons. The main one being that the FED buys and sells govt securities in the open market to affect interest rates. If they want to lower rates and stimulate the economy, they buy govt securities. Without those to buy, they would have to find some other financial vehicle, which opens up all kinds of protential problems. If at least part of that debt is used to finance long term capital items, like bridges, roads, or an aircraft carrier, it's no different than a homeowner buying a house with a mortgage. The key here is the relation of the total debt to the size of the US economy. It's still not anywhere near historic levels when compared to the economy, but I agree it would be good for it to be lowered. And Geenspan was always in favor of reducing the present level of Federal debt and less govt spending.

If you bought the book, you might learn something. As for Greenspan's stewardship at the FED, only a tiny minority would bitch about that. At the beginning of his chairmanship, the economy was in a disaster, unemployment was 9%, inflation 7%, and govt bonds were yeilding 18%. He was there with Reagan when all that was reversed through tax cuts and sound monetary policy, resulting in the longest expansion in peace time history.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
PerfectReign wrote:

I live just north of San Diego, California, so it's pretty much warm and sunny every day of the year. In the winter, it might get down to freezing in the mornings, so it's a little tricky to start, but generally my mix is vegetable oil unless I run out. Last fill, I put 2 gallons of petrodiesel in to fill the tank, but that's the first time I've been to the filling station in months. However, with the noticably improved mileage I think I'll keep topping off with petrodiesel since it's not too bad if you're only dropping $10 every couple of weeks... (On top of 100% WVO that's primarily soy.)
Considered multi-tanking it, but where I live there's just no need. I do a pretty thorough job filtering it, and haven't needed to change a fuel filter since I did the conversion. I was running an SVO blend (30-60% at any given time) with petrodiesel before getting the conversion done. The oil is a lot darker than diesel fuel, it's sorta like amber "grade A" maple syrup, but it's otherwise completely transparent. I chalk that up to the obsessive-compulsive 5 micron filter bags hanging into the drums in my shed. (Wow, they get full of some mean sludgy nastiness, not to mention the occasional peanut, greenbean, french fry, and even a screw once!)
-tom!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Tom Plunket turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

I'm in the same boat - I'm in Los Angeles. It will drop into the 40's on a regular basis but never less than 60 in my garage.

That's what i was wondering.
I see many posts - both here and on places like benzworld - where they completely deride single-tank systems for using 100% WVO and the cold climates. However, I wanted to hear a first-hand experience from a local who uses either 100% SVO/WVO or a mix.

So you filter your own? Do you collect as well? I'm thinking it would be easier - and more convenient - for me to have it delivered already filtered in 50 gallon containers. I see rates in the middle $2/gallon around here.
--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

powered by the lizard: www.opensuse.org
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
My friend did the Lovecraft conversion last year on his 87 300SDL. He ran 100% WVO... without diesel, his mileage is around 20MPG. With diesel he gets 25MPG. However, I think he needs new injectors as his is way over 200,000 miles.
I filter all the oil for him. I finally got it figured out and I filter to 1 Micron. I can do 30 gallons in about 2 hours liesurely. We collect our own oil.
I will convert mine soon. We live in Northern NJ. He ran full WVO in 40 degree... he had a bit of hard time to start but once going, he is fine. I told him repeatedly to fill some regular diesel to thin it out for cold weather... I think he wants to experiement. We also had a hard time filtering the oil but I got it all worked out and fast.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Is there any data on using Kerosene to thin WVO rather than #2 fuel oil? I would think you would need less?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Kerosene is number 1 diesel which is used in winter. It is thinner than the summer blend. They are in same family... I think kerosene is further processed so not so smelly.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Right, but does it mix well with WVO? I would think you would need less Kerosene to get a start the Diesel? Just a thought.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Yes, they mix well regardless if it is Kerosene, Diesel #1 or Diesel #2 (summer).
I wouldn't know but I think costwise is not effective as Kerosene is just as expensive.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Kerosene is more expensive, but you need less of it to reduce the viscosity of the mixture. So prices, and the temperature are the variables that it will depend on. people also cut WVO with gasoline to thin it out. Chea[er, and quite thin. You have to use the cheap stuff. Do not use anything but cheap gasoline, and never more than 15% in your mix. Some will actually let the gasoline go stale and drop in octane so it will burn better. There is loads about it on the biodiesel.infopop forum. Go into the blending section of the forum.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
PerfectReign wrote:

Yeah, I don't know that it'd work very well unless you kept your car garaged, never parked it outdoors for long, and maybe even had a block heater. Or blend it with petrodiesel, but still- my experience starting my car in the (barely) freezing weather is that it is Not Easy. If I lived in VT, I'd definitely go not only dual-tank but also route coolant through my veggie oil.
Down in SoCal, though, dual-tank is a waste of energy. :)

Yeah, that sounds like a ticket. $2/gallon seems steep for something that's already been sold once, but if they're bringing it to your house I could see it being worth it. Plus you wouldn't need to worry about running out (I'm always right on the edge; the two 50-gallon drums in my shed have less than five gallons a piece in them, although I've got about 20G to pour tomorrow and another 50 or so for the coming weeks). So I also have a garage full of vegetable oil jugs yet-to-be-filtered, and it kinda stinks.
-tom!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Tom Plunket turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

That's what I was wondering. Being in So Cal, where we barely get below 40 in the winter, and having a garage, I can't imagine what the benefit is.

It is one of the businesses springing up. AFAIK, there are less restaurants wanting to supply people with WVO.

That's what I want to avoid. If I can pay $2/gal for someone filtering and collecting, then I'll be happy.

--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

powered by the lizard: www.opensuse.org
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Just an update on soybean oil prices...., My friend in so. California just reported that 5 gallon oil jugs at smart & final are currently $27.95 (were 18.00 in 2006) and $23.95 at Restaurant Depot (were $ 14.95 in 2006). Do any of you WVO people check the pH of your oil? Just curious. cj
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"-->> T.G. Lambach <<--" <"T.G. Lambach at NoHamorSpamcomcast.net">wrote:

In the UK, we pay GBP 1.18 per litre, which is approximately:
(wait for it!)
US $8.82 per US gallon ...
Unleaded gasoline costs about 8% to 10% less.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

as long as your government uses fuel taxes to fund their socialist polices you will pay exorbitant amounts for fuel, crude oil prices are the same around the world, the differences in prices is the taxes governments impose. __________________________________________ Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.