Better Car VTS or VTR

Yep.

My current car has 1.5 stars, and I care about this much ||

But as we've already said, you don't buy a hothatch if you're concerned with running costs, for obvious reasons !!

You should be looking at little Diesels.

Nope.

But I like to drive a fast car. You can't have a fast car with good mpg, and cheap tax. Power and Running Costs are mutually exclusive. I choose to drive my 200bhp car, knowing full well it uses pap loads of fuel, and tax and insurance are much more than they have to be.

As above, crash safety doesn't concern me. The way I look at it : If it's got any, then it's a bonus !

Nope.

You'd have to pay me BIG money to convince me that any silly little tinbox cars are good. I like a big, comfortable car, that can get me places quickly and smoothly.

Rubbish. As a driver's car, it's the best of the current bunch.

Go and buy this month's Evo magazine - there's a feature on exactly the subject in question !

Reply to
Nom
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Eh ?

But if you're buying a hot hatch, then "slightly slower" is a HUGE issue. The only reason to buy one, is for the performance !

Exactly the point !

We are talking about hot-hatches here. You don't buy a hot-hatch if you're "biased towards safety, space and cost of ownership" !!!!

Reply to
Nom

Well, yes, to an extent. I checked Dervy's pages, and what I thought was confirmed. Ish.

Ford renamed the 1.3 Endura-E the Duratec, and it is still OHV. The 1.6 Duratec is unrelated, one page I found mentioned 5 main bearings (IIRC, the Endura-E/Duratec 1.3 still have the 3 main bearings of the Valencia).

Bloody Ford. Stupid engine naming.

What /is/ the 2.3 16v called, anyway?

Richard

Reply to
Richard Kilpatrick

There are safe relatively spacey and not overly expensive quite hot hatches, the Saxo isn't one of them. As far as I am concerned the Fabia or Ibiza with the 130PS engine is hot enough in standard trim and would be more than a match for a VTR in 30-70 while being far safer & cheaper to run. In short I would buy a hot-hatch so long as it meets my other requirements.

But it's safe to say you don't buy a Saxo if you want to be happy with the car.

I guess the question is would you honestly spend £12,000 on a new VTS over another car in it's class considering the JD power & Euro NCAP results? If so I guess you only look at one thing when purchasing a car rather than looking at it as a package.

Reply to
Depresion

You can't seriously be saying that the only thing that matters is 0-62 times? Maybe you should try taking a 130PS Fabia or Ibiza out. Very good drive bigger boot for an ICE install the engine will easily be tuned to over 150bhp as Infern0 said he wanted to mod the car these things should be taken into account along with the fact that people mod cars to be deferment so starting with a car that isn't common in the mudded community is a good thing.

So if you were offered a car with more power, better MPG lower tax but slightly slower MPG you wouldn't take it?

Yet you are defending the Saxo no production car (bar the fiat Sach,, Sechen,,

600) is tinyer.
Reply to
Depresion

And none have the combination of handling/performance/economy offered by the Saxo.

130ps? Which engine iss that? The only engine I know of for the Ibiza which has that is the TDi 130. The lupo GTi has a 125BHP 1.6, but that's no more torquey than the saxo engine, and the Lupo weighs more.

Why? They are lightweight, fun, reliable cars. They aren't heavy, comfortable motorway cruisers, but they suit thier particular market perfectly, which is why they have been so very sucessful.

The fact is that most people who buy hot hatches are not really interested in the NCAP results, and quite rightly take the JD power results with a pinch of salt. This is self evident from the popularity of the VTR/VTS

You are doing what everyone does, and looking at the characteristics which are important to you.

Reply to
Andrew Kirby

Soon to come though. Ford redesigned the Ka but research (mainly woman) showed the new version (which looks very similar to the C2) didn't cut it, so the current shape is staying for about another 4 or 5 years, they're updating the engines to 1.25 16v and 1.4 16v + 1.6 variety i assume for the sport and finally ditching the 1.3.

Reply to
Dave

Well, i wouldn't buy any car new when i can save stackloads by buying 1 year old. The NCAP tests, well, i wouldn't consider them, or even look at them :) The JD Power survey, again, just cos lots of people dislike a car doesn't mean i will. I've never driven a VTS, but i have driven a VTR and would buy one on the basis of how much i enjoyed it, on the basis of that what matters to me in a car :)

Reply to
Dan405

Doesn't the Duratec share blocks with the old Ka engine, just a new top end? I thought that's what I read somewhere.

Reply to
Doki

Yea but, as an article in What Car? states that i have here, best drivers car under £15k, the Ibiza didn't do very well because as far as fun went, it wasn't much :) They say it felt too nose heavy, and cos it was a diesel, there was no fun to found in revving it, and the revs that you have ran out all too quickly. For driving fun, the VTS would piss on any of those things, even though they might well make better crusiers, thats not what hot hatches are about.

Not quite sure what this meant...

Yea but hes not saying he'd have one, hes saying the Saxo is the best of the bunch. Obviously this doesn't include CTR, 172's etc as they're a class above.

Reply to
Dan405

'Will someone please put this retard out of his misery'

;) Anyone care to name the quote?

Reply to
Dan405

Economy? £12000 that will half in 2 years, £160 a year VED and 33mpg you are right none of the others are so bad.

The Mini Cooper is only 5bhp down £295 cheaper has great handling better residuals, 41mpg and is cheaper to tax.

Yes the 1.9tdi in the vRS and Cupra very torqey plus very tenable. They also sell well in Europe as sporty cars. Also why it's a better drive, cheaper to tax and gets so much better MPG. Or are you one of the anti diesel people that's never driven one of the latest generation engines?

Ask all the owners of them that filled in the JD power surveys, they are always right down at the bottom. Or do you think the owners aren't the people to ask if they are good cars and you are better with someone fresh out of a journalism course who gets to spend a few hours with one on a track?

Reply to
Depresion

It may be a great drive for a few hours but surly the how bad the results are bust suggest there are problems with owning them. The best drive I've ever had was an Elise, the fact the K series engines have a tendency to blow head gaskets the doors fall off and getting the problems sorted when they crop up would be enough to put me off as there is a lot more to owning a car than how well it drives.

Reply to
Depresion

And it's such a shame Fiat haven't seen fit to wedge the corking little

1.2 16v in there.... that would be frantic, rev-happy, tail-slidey fun :-)
Reply to
SteveH

I know some fool that put a 1.4 turbo in one. Thankfully I was never a passenger in it. Didn't NCAP try to introduce a negative rating for them. ;)

Reply to
Depresion

Hmmmm...... I'm not entirely sure this is possible. Not saying it hasn't been done - but it's nigh-on impossible as the Cinq / Sei was never designed to take that block.

Which is why most modders pick the Punto 1.2 8v / 16v for engine conversions.

Heh.

I miss my Cinq. I'll have another one day.

Reply to
SteveH

If the 1.3's block isn't the same, it's pretty close.

Reply to
DervMan

The 1.3 Duratec is an OHC, though, whereas the Endura-E is a pushrod. As I recall . . .

Well, perhaps. The 1.6 and 1.3 heads look remarkably similar.

Nope, the Endura-E has five main bearings.

Heh heh! I've never actually looked /makes note to check the 2.3 Galaxy I have access to/.

Reply to
DervMan

/cough/ VW Golf?

Oh, sorry, we're discussing hot hatches. :)

Reply to
DervMan

But it has less power, and is a fat bloater!

Reply to
Dan405

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