electric power steering

First one I remember was the MGF.. never bothered finding out how it was done though..

In article , snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk spouted forth into uk.rec.cars.modifications...

Rear engine Skodas with no weight of the wheels, the box system felt horrible, but when they switched to a rack it was sweetness and light.

Too light some times, at speed, one finger thought operated steering was all that was needed. Parking could be a bugger if you fitted a smaller wheel though.

For a FWD car, the Skoda Favorit wasn't too bad, until I bought the Saab with PAS, and then the Skoda felt like a brick to move.

Wow it draws up to 40A? cool.... need some thick wiring there and battery has to be good else it would stall the engine once you turn the wheel right?

So does this mean that cars with electric power steer>Wrong. The Corsa B and C have epas columns which have a starter motor

Surely not much different to many small cars on the roads now though? and the same rack uprights etc were used on the go faster version, that had 175 tyres, IIRC. Might be 185s, I'm sure people run those on them anyway.

A good few hundred kilos?? I can see them being heavier, but are they really that fat? To think I complain my medium/ small car is about 900kg!

Generally acheived by using a bus steering wheel, going by the BMC/ BL stuff I've had.

Been there, done that. Didn't find it that bad, on 195s. The Cav was dire for parking, on both 165 and 185s, IIRC. But not so bad as to put me off the car, or want power steering. After all, I'm only "unparking" and parking at the beginning and end of the journey, so I'm happy not having something running all the time that I use hardly any of the time :)

Surely NOBODY is physically able enough to drive a reasonably-sized, modern, front engined (1500Kg ish) car without it !

You haven't driven fat lardy modern cars without it - cos there aren't any :)

Exactly !

My TI, with it's cast-iron engine, and 215-width tyres, would be simply ridiculous without power-steering.

They hardly compare to modern machinery !!!!

Er, perhaps because the cars of ten-to-fifteen years ago, were MASSIVELY lighter !

Why does electric PAS suck ass? My car has it and the handling and steering response is fan-blooming-tastic.

Paul

And you've driven every car available to make this comparison valid?

I know Steve said this, but it got me wondering. There's more gadgets in a modern car, sure, but the plastic bits are all there to reduce the weight and so provide better economy / acceleration?

PAS saves you having to design the suspension to assist the driver, so if it fails you have great difficulty.

When the car is designed not to have PAS, the angle of the struts, king pin and axle is set up to make the steering lighter, and of course you can alter the gearing of the rack so the wheel is easier to turn.

Weight of the car isn't the key factor in this, front tyre width tends to be much more important and the speed of the car at the time is paramount - it's hard work when the car isn't going forwards.

Did you not notice the difference in the number of turns lock-to-lock in either car?

No I have not. Lordy used the sweeping generalisation:

"Electric assistance sucks ass, but unfortunately it offers so many benefits over conventional hydraulic PAS (economy, simplicity, maintenance, reliability, etc) that it's here to stay."

I was merely questioning why. Based on my (somewhat limited) experience of driving electric PAS cars (i.e. mine) it's really good. I have nothing else to compare to hence I replied based on my experience.

Paul

How about a Peugeot Boxer van with 195 tyres and no power steering. Cant say it was really a problem (mind you it was about a million turns lock to lock :))

I have friends who have 309 GTis with a short PAS rack but no power steering, and sticky 195 tyres, again they dont find it a problem.

And how about a 3 ton milkfloat with only 1 front wheel. Again not a problem :)

The problem is people have learnt to live with PAS, so moan and cry if they dont have it :)

You need to try an old Master without PS. Near unparkable.

I'd say he was stating the majority view of the better motoring press who

The only 'electric' one I've driven was the MGF, and I wasn't impressed.

Any servo system will reduce feel to some extent, but I'd say an electric one will be worse as the maximum available power will have less reserve than a normal hydraulic one, so will have more compromises in the geometry.

Thats the good things about vans. You dont park, you just stop and put the hazards on ;)

That's not exactly a generalisation, it was a statement of fact :)

Which car would that be, if it's not too intrusive ?

It always feels too 'artificial' and sluggish to me. And, as Dave rightly says, the majority of the press seem to be against it as well, particularly the more 'driver focused' bunch (i.e. AutoCar, Evo).

I've driven my Ti without PAS, and that was a fk'ing nightmare :)

Yes. But they fail, miserably :)

My car weighs 1300Kg, and it's light compared to it's peers ! (Pug 406 V6 for example, is 1400Kg)