If I say got bored with the Saab, which would be the better bangernomics Alfa?

Lower compression ratios to start with.

Sab aren't too bad because of the APC that checks for knock and reduces boost accordingly by opening the wastegate early, but they still only have 9:1 compression.

Thing about the Saab is, it feels lumpy, rattly and flat arround town, not that nice to drive, it isn't until you get your hoof down, either on the motorway, or throwing it around lanes that it works.

Feels a lot smoother, lighter and smaller than it round the lanes, and more stable at 90 than it is at 70 on the MWay.

Plus arround town, 150 miles of motorway was averaging me at arround

30MPG (calculated my me not the car), then I had about 30 miles of town driving. By the time I had done that, consumption was up to 26MPG. With petrol the way it is price wise, not the friendliest car to own ATM.

can't even use the turbo to get upto speed arround town either, because it's 1st, 2nd foot down boost, change. Sit at 30 in 3rd for the next 20 minutes or until you stop next. Takes about 3 seconds once you are moving.

So what would be a fair price to pay for a 1.8 or 2.0 TS 145? I know a=20 cloverleaf would be nice, and I see them in Autotrader from =A32k upwards= =20 locally.

Would love a 156 or 147 (one set of shapes that we both me and the=20 missus agree look fantastic) not sure how she would feel about a 164 or=20

155 (showed a pic of a 155 and she wasn't keen but it wasn't a good=20 angle, but showed her a pic of a 145 and she liked it, said it looked a=20 bit like a Fabia/Stilo/Corolla (or even the Beemer 1 series)).

BTW, saw quite a tidy 75 today. Body work looked sharp from when I=20 passed as he was stationary in traffic, just a little rust staining=20 below the rear lights. White on a G plate. We were crawling as well,=20 and I had the winder open, sounded nice as I passed.

--=20 The poster formerly known as Skodapilot.

Because they run much lower compression.

But if you have a Turbo car, then why would you drive it off boost ?

That's like sticking your NA car in 5th gear at 20mph, and then complaining it's gutless :)

If you're off-boost, then you're in the wrong gear :)

TI makes full boost from 2100rpm upwards. So as long as you keep it in that range, the only "lag" is the fraction of a second it takes for the Turbo to spin up.

Yes it's gutless if you try and accelerate from 1000rpm - but then you're supposed to change down a gear !

Hmmm, the TI isn't like that at all.

I tend to just leave it in 2nd gear for slow-moving periods (like 20mph ish) or 3rd gear (for 30mph ish) and it copes just fine. Either of those combinations give lots of pull if I press the loud pedal !

Tell me about it.

20 is fine in 2nd, but not really going anywhere. 30 in 2nd is 3k revs. just the right point to shift up when the oil is cold, but the turbo has only just started to spool at those revs, so you aren't getting much boost, you are at the speed limit, and it's time to shift anyway because the oil is cold.

Redline in second is about 58-60. I haven't gone to redline in 3rd, because I shifted up at 75 to 4th, and then to 5th before I had to brake for a roundabout, but I understand it is somewhere arround 90.

Turbo starts to spool arround 2500 but isn't fully spooled until about

3500, then it is absolutley sweet.

Thought I just did.

Ok, then:

Loot's annoying like that. On the odd occasion I've bought some earlybird tokens, but it's a rip-off as they expire in about a week. Generally you're only looking to buy one very specific thing at any given time, so why shell out for x amount of tokens that expire in the week. If they lasted 6 months or a year that might be more popular.

:-)

Peter

I know exactly what you mean. Mind you, sometimes I do keep the revs a bit low in the Audi. When I first got it I was impressed with how smooth (gutless, but smooth, if you get me) it was just pootling along between 1000 and 1500rpm. So that's changing up to 4th by about 30-35 ish. Then one day I used lower gears, basically keeping the revs to around 2000rpm or slightly higher. Fuel consumption was unchanged, and if anything slightly better (or maybe that's a psychological thing!) but it was so much more enjoyable to drive.

Peter

What gets me is, it used to be totally free, could avoid cluttering up the house with old newspaper, then it was 3 days for an early bird, thought was only fair because an issue lasts 3 days roughly round here (twice weekly plus weekend issue) but now it is upto 6 days for an early bird, the car hasn't beenm in for 2 issues, and they still want you to pay to view it.

You might find that issue on top of someone recycle bin for free if you looked and get the info you want for free.

Yeah. That is it exactley. not sure if the little bit higher revs really buggers the economy at=20 all.

I know if I do 200 miles of motorway at 70/80/90 almost constant, I can=20 get away with using =A35 less fuel than if I do my normal 200 a week=20 commute when the average motorway speed in the rush is 50.

if I do more town driving than motorway at all, then I'm looking at it=20 being about =A35 higher than my normal weekly commute. Probably just=20 swapping 30 motorway miles for town miles is enough to add that extra =A35= =20 to fuel spends. Seem like it anyway.=20

--=20 The poster formerly known as Skodapilot.

You did - round country carpark when there was tourists everywhere, and a Supra parked up, and you got angry when i put my foot down ;)

I dream of 26mpg, 6mpg is more like it from mine ;)

Let me know if you do decide to sell. I'd be tempted by a flat front.

Oh and you do know once you've had a T16 nothing else really compares, you'll miss that urgency the car develops when it comes on boost!

Matt

I know what you mean about that. Great when you have room to boot it, but lousy round town.

Do you want another resto project Matt?

It's all sound legal, but a bit scruffy, and I know what your high standard are like on the F900.

I know doing 70 in 5th, and feeling like you are hardly touching the gas just jab the throttle, the needle goes straight to full boost and the car really lurches and snatches forward. Not a gentle acceleration, a real woosh forward.

If I was travelling down country bypasses every day, outside of rush hour it would be great.

But, the only non 30mph route upto the M62 takes 5 minutes from my house on a quiet sunday. On a bad day it is 45 mins of nose to tail. At 7.30AM we get more than 45mins than 5 mins. When I hit the M62 there is always a 40mph advisory sign on the slip. That is taking the piss, I haven't entered that strtech of the motorway on a weekday above 20.

And average day going to work takes me 40-50 minutes. A good day (like a Sunday morning) can see the same journey done in around 20, and that is staying below 80, and just enjoying the ride.

I need something that is a little smoother through to moderate power, rather than being flat when crawling and then wooshing to greatness.

I wouldn't. The only one worth having (IMHO) is the Cloverleaf (146 version is badged Ti) - but even then it's an expensive engine to maintain - think £400 for a cambelt change if you do everything associated at the same time.

I can just about put up with that on a Cloverleaf, but wouldn't dream of paying that kind of maintenance bill for a 1.8TS.

I'd be very interested in it if you do decide to sell. It sounds to me like a late 1992/1993 900i 16V would be perfect, circa 130bhp normaly aspirated

16V. Same classic looks as the T16 but much less likely to have been thrashed, much easier to commute in and a lot cheaper to run. Add to that the very best 1993 K plate 16V's fetch no more than a grand, I was offered a 1992 Red (paint still nicely red) 900i 16V with FSSH and 88,000 miles for 600quid recently. Only thing that stopped me having it was that I was between houses at the time.

Matt

In article , snipped-for-privacy@tamate.com spouted forth into uk.rec.cars.modifications...

Hmmm, and there was me tempted by older germanic or slightly more recent italian.

It's just that, looking at all aspects of the car, it seems a little smaller on the outside than the 164 and the 155, and fairly roomy on the inside.

Also, the dash/interior looks most normal. Especially compared the starship enterprise panel I saw in the 164 interior shots I've seen.

looks like more flexibility for changing things like adding a VGA screen for the carPC project, and moving the headunit, that sort of stuff.

I would pay the right money for a cloverleaf, and if I was going to go for almost any more modern alfa (or even similar age 16v) I would have to budget for the service costs anyway. I like the "presence" the size of the saab gives, but fancy something a little smaller this time. Maybe a little bigger than a supermini (Fabia/Polo/ Fiesta "Spit") but not full size saloon like a Vectra/Octavia.

Yeah, there is that. The 164 is pretty huge - something that's always put me off them. 155 is a nice size for me - I never use the back seats, but I just find that size of car more comfortable for distances than a smaller car, like the 33 / 145 / 146.

Aye- 164 dash is a bit of a nightmare - not to be messed with.

Can't see any scope for moving the head unit in the 155, but you can fit a double-din sized head unit in there - silly place, though, it's too close to the gearstick.

I just wouldn't go for a modern one (ie. 16v motor) at this end of the market. Much better to pay the same money for an absolutely top-notch older car - like a P/R plate 155.

Well I'm guessing you like the C900 and the certain type of style that goes with it so a late 900i makes perfect sense really. The 900i's are obviously a lot less stressed than the T16's and are missing the bits that generaly need replacing on T16's, namely Gearbox's. No reason you couldn't swap the shocks and other bits and bobs over from the T16 and get it handling nicely, even add an Aero kit, afterall it provides a good reduction in the COD so better fuel economy ;)

C900's are a bit like the maffia, every time you think your out, they pull you back in ;)