In what distance would a Bugatti Veyron beat that Vauxhall dragster?

Well, my original question was distance, you (or someone) threw in the concept of a "highway chase".

I wasn't envisioning any kind of traffic interference - for one because racing in traffic is plain stupid and dangerous - especially to others - and people who do it should be publicly executed...slowly.

Even if it's just a straight Bonneville run, logic dictates there's no way the Veyron loses. No way is that Vauxhall with drag gears capable of maintaining the kind of speeds that Veyron can with ease and he'd be a fool to try. He's still got his homebuilt budget suspension - let's face it most of the money is in the engine, pathetic aerodynamics, and an engine that was designed to go like hell for under 10 seconds. He tries to hold high speeds against that Veyron's infinitely more sophisticated powertrain, suspension and aerodynamics he's either A) gonna die when it gets away from him B) his engine is going to fail spectacularly where he might also die as a result.

At some point he's going to reach his terminal speed and the Veyron catches him and passes him....or passes the burning wreck on the side of the road that used to be the Vauxhall.

Btw, you never followed up on my other query. You stated the Vauxhall will accelerate harder at 150 than the Veyron does off the line. So, you say the Vaux will go 150 - 210 as fast as the Veyron does 0 - 60 -

2.46 secs?

Not me I think?

Very wrong - Logic and physics dictates that the Vauxhall would totally destroy the road car at all speeds other than flat out where the vauxhall should be only v slightly faster.

No way is that Vauxhall with drag gears capable

Nobody knows the Vauxhalls final drive ratio. And in any case he could choose the best one for the challenge on the day in minutes. As for "he would be a fool to try" that would be your unqualified opinion. Personally I dont see a big risk but I am an ex serious bike drag racer, tuner, nitrous system builder, and inertial dynamometer designer and builder (amongst other related stuff) and you are what? Shelf stacker? Only a guess...

You dont understand suspension. I have driven ridden 200mph stuff with none. Not an issue.

By which you mean what? Low drag? No its going to be draggy. He does not care he has 4x the power! Or stability. One of my hats is serious high speed aerodynamics. Stability only requires that the centre of pressure is as far behind the c of g as you can manage. And n a car "some" but not exessive downforce. Thats EASY to arange with a square shaped car. Its actually harder with a low drag shape like a veyron because its " rounded" ... The point where the airflow detaches in a gusty or crosswind situation changes position. Since this is assemetric it tries to destabilise the car. Anyway TRUST ME when I tell you that an old vauxhall is easier to make stable at high speed than a jelly mould shape...

and an engine that was designed to go like hell for

As a seriously high power engine tuner and dyno designer and drag racer I can tell you now that a really high output engine will die in 2 to 5 secs if its "wrong" ... And the opposite is also true, the more boost you have the richer and more retarded ignition you need to use.

Sorry but your 10 secs is plucked from mid air simply because you dont understand enough about the subject.

He tries to hold high speeds against that Veyron's

Thats possible but still you seem to think its inevitable where I as a serious and seasoned drag racer thinks its not even an issue!

B) his engine is

If the engine breaks he just slows down and is disapointed. You watch too many films...

Physics dictates that the vauxhall with 3x the power will actually have a better top speed by a small margin gearing allowing.

or passes the burning wreck on the side

Imagination running away with you? Sorry but I have been to too many record events and drag meetings for that to make any sense.

Yes. It will be about that. You still have no comprehension of quite how hard accelerating a 7 sec 180 mph car is have you?

It gets to 180+ in 7.

Limited by grip alone so its rate of acc along the strip is far more constant than a gutless roadcar that can only acc at first few yards. It gains roughly the same mph per sec at the start as it does at the finish. The limiting factor is grip. Even at the 440 yard point. It uses more boost and more nitrous as speed increases to achieve this. So divide the 187 or whatever it is by 3. Thats 60mph stages. Divide the 7 secs by 3...

Now you see that its doing its constant g force all the way so the last

60mph happens as fast as the first only faster because the car has more downforce/boost/grip...

His best run was much closer to 8 than 7 actually.

Utter nonsense. It's also limited by the ever-increasing air pressure the faster it goes, assuming there's atmosphere in the UK.

What I see is that your construct doesn't hold water. It's highly touted as doing 0 - 60 in 1 second. If it were truly accelerating faster and faster as you assert, then it should do that 180 in well under 3 secs. Nope, takes almost 8 seconds - which is the best he's managed out of many tries. Wanna bet a lot of his runs have been over

8? Clearly the speed/time is largely dependent on the early stages with acceleration steadily and rapidly degrading as he goes down the track, with boost, nitrous and best wishes from the Queen and her court.

It uses a multi staged nitrous system that ads more power as it can tyres and grip allowing. Ie as the speed goes up and the gearing is increased it just ads power that it cannot use at lower speeds. So effectively the rate of acceleration is much more constant and continuous than the road car. The road car veyron has less torque and power available at the wheels every time it goes up a gear. The race car simply ups the power.

It does not accelerate faster and faster and I never claimed it did. But it does compensate in power as speed and gearing increases wheras the veyron does not. It simply has less torque available at the wheels every time you go up a gear. Thats why it takes about a week to get to its top speed in high gear. Off the line it has huge weight transfer on to its rear wheels as the excess extra energy from the reving 9 litre motor internals which are heavy and store a lot of energy. It does not break traction due to the weight transfer that happens on chassis correctly engineered to allow the almost wheelie situation to occur. The effect of the pitching car is lost as soon as the first few yards are covered but then so is the extra energy already expended. So its not possible to add the 0 to 60 times together as the first one has a big advantage in grip.

Nope, takes almost 8 seconds - which is the best he's

Sorry but all you proved is that your grasp of physics and drag cars is sadly lacking. Incidentally I am not the one cutting all the big chunks out of the posts that I didnt like the answers to either... Sadly thats the sign of desperation. I know you think the veyron is good and it is increadibly good for a civilised safe fast road car but in performace only stakes it needs 3+ times more power to compete with the less civilised and MUCH faster vauxhall. So much for you comments about the comparrison being "laughable". I have seen a maclaren F1 do a standing quarter (yawn) and a veyron isnt much faster really. And only 25mph faster flat out. To compare that to something that runs a 7 second quarter mile which assaults your senses and actually looks about 4x as violent is whats laughable.

Your words:

"...the last 60mph happens as fast as the first only faster..."

"...It gains roughly the same mph per sec at the start as it does at the finish..."

Some of which doesn't even make sense:

"It uses more boost and more nitrous as speed increases to achieve this. So divide the 187 or whatever it is by 3. Thats 60mph stages. Divide the 7 secs by 3... "

Why? It's already a known quantity that he's gaining the first 60mph in 1 sec, not 1/3 of 7.8 secs.

If he's getting 60 in one sec, and it takes nearly 7 times that to achieve the next two 60 mph gains, it's obvious each is taking longer and longer. Even if we pretended the next two 60mph gains 60 - 120 and

120 - 180 were evenly divided - which they won't be, they'll be successively slower, he's not even getting 120 - 180 in 2.5 secs, and the faster he goes the forces acting against him aren't going to be getting any lesser. Given this degradation in acceleration, it's absurd to assert he can get 150 - 210 in 2.5 secs. He can't even do it when already under momentum from acceleration let alone from a held 150 then max throttle.

The first is obviously a typo. The second is an attempt to simplyfy what happens in a race car like he has compared to a road car wich accelerates much slower in every subsequent gear. It is obvious that the actual times for the three segments wont be exactly the same. I was trying to show that the first section is traction limited. The second section also is because the car ups the power accordingly and the third section where aerodynamics start to come int play in a more serious manner may well be a bit slower and to simplyfy things I ignored the advantage of the stored energy in the motor and the weight transfer the starting few yards gives it.

And as usual you have cut out all the parts where you didnt like the answers because you were obviously wrong. And chosen a typo and a simplified statement of the reason that the race cars rate of acceleration is nearly constant compared to the road car.

One makes 187mph in 7 secs, the other a miserable 140 in 10 which is only as good as a not particularly quick standard motorbike for about 7k new... That difference is almost entirely in the latter part of the run since grip is an issue at the start for both.

OK ignore the launch details (and all the other details which you chose to cut again) and divide the rest of the run into 3 (disclaimer for stupid people - its not going to be exactly the same but will show the simply huge difference between the two) Is that any easier for you?

Yes I agree. Because I was ignoring the aerodynamics for the sake of simplicity as I already explained. But while the veyron is power limited and can only accelerate more slowly with each gearchange the racer just increases the power.

It wasn't obvious to me and it still isn't obvious that it was a "typo".

The point arose in the first place when you made the following assertion - at least twice:

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Its accellerating harder at 150 than the veyron can off the line!

Yes. It will be about that. You still have no comprehension of quite how hard accelerating a 7 sec 180 mph car is have you?

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Any "typos" there?

You made a specific assertion that you're now attempting to backpeddle away from.

I was focusing on a particular point. Kindly point out where I'm "wrong" about the Vauxhall NOT "accellerating harder at 150 than the veyron can off the line".

The fact is, by that point it's running out of steam, having gained the biggest chunk of its speed and time in the early stages of the run.

And how's that bike - or any true street bike you care to bring to the road gonna do over, oh say 220? What's that? It won't do 220 pushed off a cliff you say.

A car that's set up solely for short distance acceleration will cover a 1/4 mile a bit quicker than a car that isn't. Okay.

And what happens when they go down a 15 mile straightaway? Both with their foot in it. Assuming a drag-race start - okay he's ahead by about 3 secs at 1/4 mile. Okay, 14.75 miles to go. If that Vauxhall can't hit and maintain 250, he's gonna lose. With the gears that get him that 7.8 sec 1/4, ain't gonna happen.

He'd really be screwed if they went at it down the salt flats where all that low end torque is useless and it's simply who's got the goods on the top end.

It took a bunch of talented folks to make that Veyron do what it does. If it makes you feel better to maintain that a 10 sec 1/4 mile is "miserable" for an over 4000lb car that will cruise on down the road comfortably at 200 and still has 25% more speed in it's back pocket, whatever guy.

Yes it was and as usual you are cutting out the bits you dont like again.

No. I said that thje vauxhall is accelerating harder at 150 than the veyron does off the line. Can you not read or understand?

150 to 210 was never mentioned other than by you. Both cars will accelerate slower as max speed is achieved but the one with the biggest power and the best power to weight and the most drag will do so much later. It will still be accelerating much harder than the veyron as a large proportion of its vmax is achieved.

No I am not. The problem is that you dont read or understand too well. The typo sentence that you picked out of a huge post and cut all the rest because it made you look stupid didnt even make sense to you never mind me.

It doesent and you are wrong. According to the calculator based on the figures we know the veyrons acceleration never matches the vauxhall at any speed.

Wrong! Compared to the lower powered car its rate of acceleration is much greater and for further up the track. Its acceleration only falls off markedly at the top 25 percent of its run. And is better than the veyron at every point on the graph.

No it wont and I never said ir would! A bike has the aerodynamics of a brick. But still a cheap stock one runs a quarter mile at the same time/speed as your beloved veyron...

Although I personally know two people well who have modified roadgoing bikes that run rather fast. Dean Williamson (british drag streetbike champion for many years) suzuki turbo 1100 was road legal and it had 270bhp when I dyno tested it. it ran

8.1secs and at 170+ on street tyres with no wheelie bars. thats slower than the vauxhall. But hugely fast. He is a joiner and uses it for transport at work... It was also clocked by simon hargreaves performance bikes magazine editor, at the isle of man on the road at 212 mph with the PB Radar speed gun, and at 222 at bruntingthorpe in the rain - he said it would go faster but kept spinning its rear wheel. And the vauxhall has massively better aerodynamics than an early eighties or in fact any bike! And Woody (proper name unknown) has a draw through turbo no intercooler on an UNFAIRED bandit and it ran 214mph at bruntingthorpe with 30lb boost and it too is his roadbike.

And by a a 50mph margin and its still out accelerating the veyron gearing allowing and we dont know what gearing he has or can have.

Okay, 14.75 miles to go. If that Vauxhall

Yes it is. The vauxhall has the same max speed potential. The veyron will be left in the dust . Because: You dont know what gearing he uses. When drag racing with huge power tall gearing helps. A top fuel car only has one gear because it has the power to light up tyres in its only 300mph plus gear.

When racing drag bikes we up the "final drive" (sprockets) to allow a full

1/4 mile run with only 3 gears used. Some use two. This is because each gear takes you further without a break to change gear. It allows the engines nitrous oxide induced torque to be used off the line. We dont need lower ratios because grip is the problem. We cant use the huge power with low gearing. Gearchanges take time. So its entirely possible that he is only using two gears and a very tall final drive ratio. In fact its pretty likely... In any case we simply dont know. But I can tell you now short gearing does not make a powerful car faster! Just the opposite.

So your supposition is very seriously flawed simply because you have no knowlege of drag racing or seriously powerful modded stuff...

The chances are that he already has the taller gearing or has a box of final drive ratios to choose from...

He has more "goods" everywhere including the top end. Not only that but the control systems and launch systems to better control it than the veyron! Why do you suppose that the fastest cars on the salt flats are slightly differently set up drag cars! Unless streamliners or jet cars?

Without a doubt. As a sensible and reliable car for average joe to run on the road its superb. But it has to be safe, reliable, smooth, quiet, crashable and pass emmissions tests etc. So no way it can compete with what is basically a drag race car on the road with all the impracticality that this means.

Frankly it is miserable as far as drag performance is concerned. There are rather a lot of cars at any test day or race meeting that can do that at any drag strip most weekends.

I think its an excellent bit of engineering. But it could never compete with a dragster on the road for straightline performance.

So your statement that you keep cutting out of the posts (like almost every point I make that you dont "like") that it is "laughable" to compare its performance to a veyron is in itself "laughable". You simply have no comprehension of performance.

Once again the exchange was as follows:

To which you responded:

"Yes. It will be about that. "

Sorry pal, it's right there in black and white. You can try to obfuscate until the cows come home, you're not going to be successful. You made no effort to qualify the statement or otherwise amend or clarify terms. You stated "Yes. It will be about that."

No, it won't.

Prattle on about your "expertise" to your heart's content, I'm done with this exchange.

I see you cut all the stuff you didnt like again... I have forgotten more about really fast cars and bikes than you could ever learn. Your "done" because your argument and your statements looked a bit stupid didnt they.

Given an infinitely long test straight, then the Vauxhall's 5mpg would become a factor and it could eventually be overtaken by a Smartcar!

But long after we all went home and fell asleep.

On that basis, pretty much everything on the road would be beaten by a golf SDi or something. Actually, I wonder what would win the worlds most boring drag race - full tank, flat to the floor until the tank empties?

Probably something like a Golf or Octavia SDi. Decent sized tank, reasonable MPG...

What's the MPG like at top speed though? But yes, you probably want something with a low top speed.

cheers, clive

Hey, they do aircraft endurance races, why not cars?

--scott

You mean like le mans? They do that already and even a deseasel can win!