Just pitching ideas around...

Well...

I was thinking about the 1980s. About the sweet spot in car design.

My example today is, inevitably, the Ford Sierra XR4i, to be backed up by the 1982 Citroen BX.

But first, lets sit back and consider the 1982 design, and specifically the 1983 XR4i variant, of the Ford Sierra.

The Sierra is a traditionally constructed 3 door hatchback, with rear wheel drive, fully independent suspension, a 2.8l OHV V6 producing

150bhp and 175lb ft, a 5 speed gearbox, and ample interior space.

Equipped thus, it can reach 60 from a standstill in 7.7 seconds and go on to a top speed of 136mph, yet returns 37mpg at 56mph and 29 at 75 (they really do, too - 12V Cologne lumps are pretty good).

The windscreen is wide, the A-pillars are slim. And yet, I can attest to the strength of the Sierra shell in a crash, having written off an XR4x4...

To get this performance in a new car, you need to spend rather a lot, and find something with >200bhp; few options offer RWD, and none offer the efficiency, visibility and practicality for a sensible price.

It's not just the XR. The Citroen BX is another excellent example of efficient, safe modern car design. Comfortable and well equipped, the

1.6 models offered performance and accomodation similar to a 2.0 Sierra, with remarkable economy, forward visibility that simply will never be seen again, and load carrying which is only found in other Citroens with HP suspension.

Both cars also enjoyed unusually long production runs (if not in the XR4i form, for some reason); both were discontinued in 1993.

I'm sure everyone can think of an example of a bloody brilliant car from the 1980s that simply doesn't have a replacement that compares, all due to safety and environmental crap. Mk II Golf GTI anyone?

And now, the point...

I reckon £100 a month - or rather, £1200 to keep a car together for a year - will sort out my XR4i rather nicely. It's already a tidy example generally with only minor bodywork required, with most of the failings being wear and tear on the transmission, suspension and engine.

£100 a month will get me a new Corsa or Punto on contract hire. £250 will barely get me a BMW 116 (for the RWD), and nothing with sensible performance. To get close to an XR4i, I need to spend £370 (I'm including the VAT here) a month and get something like a BMW 3-series Coupe.

Is £1200 enough to rebuild the Cologne V6 with unleaded heads (it is showing no signs of undue wear, but compression is 2/3rd what it should be by spec), fit new mounts and a reconditioned Type 9 gearbox, and rebush/replace the suspension?

And if I choose to run the XR as an alternative to a new car, should I keep it stock, or modify it? My modifications list would run as follows, I suspect:

New stereo, wired properly. Brand new lights (IMO a mod; they cost £180 a pair because those bloody Cosworth types keep crashing their cars). Braided brake hoses. Stainless exhaust system (OEM equivalent). XR4x4 rear end - Limited slip diff and disc brake conversion (not sure about the latter, as I happen to like the way drums behave when well serviced on cars used for low mileages). MT75 gearbox and associated parts for conversion.

Bodywise I'm told I may need a sill for the next MOT, and I want to replace/repair (behind the bumper) the front wings; ideally the underside would be totally overhauled.

With the two cars - the Subaru I still hope to find a home for - I shouldn't be let down. The Sera is very reliable because I jump on any sign of a fault and fix it right away...

It isn't quite a plan. It is almost a plan. I still need to find something that can weld up a Sierra for a reasonable price, to the standards which I would want to achieve myself.

Richard

Reply to
RichardK
Loading thread data ...

In news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net, RichardK decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

Agreed, my old 2.8 injection (the "special") Granada Mk2 could easily manage

30 on the motorway.

Aye, Mk2 Golfs and W124 Mercs.

Easily, they're a piece of piss to work on. Do it yourself!. If the box isn't whining, ignore it.

Yup, got to be done.

Yup.

Yup

Yup

Do the 4x4 rear end. Include the discs.

Nope, it's a pain to do. Just find a decent Type 9.

Front wings can be a bitch to find for Mk1 Sierras - it's the Cossie boys again.

Every city has a decent, cheap welder...

Reply to
Pete M

richard i love you :)\

saving a piece of 80's nostagia classic car and i would have one in a minute(maybe 2006 will bring one)

if you need any advice re the welding gimme a shout quite competent with box gas and electric thanks to 7 years of vauxhall ownership

Reply to
Rob

In news:lc_pf.10388$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe7-win.ntli.net, AstraVanMan decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

24v Carltons were great cars, I had one for a year.

Cavaliers were traditional FWD Vauxhalls - reasonably well built, but s**te to drive.

Heh.

Reply to
Pete M

And late shape Carltons and Cavaliers (both Mk3s of their respective shapes). Ok, they suffered from rot (but hey, so did the Sierra), but the mechanicals survived very well indeed with only minimal regular maintenance. And despite what people say about the Mk3 Cavs as being dullsville, they were bloody good car for their time, for what they were, and a lot better, relative to their time, than the Vectra.

And FWIW, a mate of mine had a cheap (but decent) old Sierra a while back (1.8 carb, but it had had a decent Weber carb recently fitted), and absolutely loved the thing.

Reply to
AstraVanMan

My £100 Granada Scorpio - 1993, so had cats? - returned 33mpg when driven just below the limit.

The W124 adds insult to injury of course, by being a: wholly in keeping with modern safety requirements pretty much, and b: considerably better made, of better materials, and better looking than anything alleged to 'replace' it.

It is. Especially in 5th. Thankfully I don't spend much time in fifth, too many bends around here.

I don't have the facilities to work on the engine, or the skills; new rings, rebore?, any crank engineering would be beyond me. New heads I reckon I could manage, likewise the cam (I'd be replacing the radiator anyway; am I right in thinking the cam is withdrawn from the front?). Suspension I can do most of, as it's a Ford, but would probably get a garage to do it as it's a Ford, piss-easy to fix, and even a backstreet garage can swap TCAs and save me the expense of a balljoint splitter and a few skinned knuckles ;)

The instant that joystick surfaces, 'auto electricians' manage to f*ck up installs. Never understood it.

Adding to the rant - bloody hell, Sierra high-line headlights are BRILLIANT. I swear it's like having searchlights on the front of the car; and that's with one having tired reflectors.

Any other upgrades worthwhile? Better calipers (I see they're sliding ones again, ew), perhaps 4pots from a Volvo 240 or similar?

Add to this, as I found one - quick rack (not PAS) - 2.3 turns lock to lock ;)

Fair enough. I've seen rebuilt Type 9s going for £160, so I reckon I should be able to find something good.

Found some on eBay a couple of times, so I shall keep watching.

I'm miles away from any cities, though; and if I don't do the stripdown myself... I think if I strip the car myself, I can see what is involved and prepare with as many NOS panels as possible. I accept some fabrication is often required, but if I can get proper sills/wings...

And the interior... Argh. Where the hell am I going to find a not-cracked Mk 1 dash from...

Richard

Reply to
RichardK

Damn you richard

you stirred that longing again

formatting link
formatting link

Reply to
Rob

Does this mean all modern cars are as crap as the Micra (current shape, rental) I was driving last week? Driving on mountain roads, the front pillar kept getting in the way, grrr. Am I being spoilt by my current car?

cheers, clive

Reply to
Clive George

Must be a b*gger to find parts for though - most of the remaining 3 door Sierra parts (they did have a basic 3 door model, right) have been pillaged for Cossies or Cossie-alikes...

What do you reckon to the later XR4x4 with boot? Not so keen?

Nick

Reply to
NickD

It certainly seems to be the case; the BMW 1 feels kinda like an old Mini but with pillars 4x as thick, the Beetle's pillars are madly wide (but thankfully quite narrow)... and the Vauxhall Tigra, the original one... hell... that was impossible.

BXs have astonishingly thin pillars, though.

Richard

Reply to
RichardK

formatting link
Ew! Ewewew! EWWWWWWW!

They cut the damn pillar out!

Only you could manage to find the most overpriced, chavved shitbox of an XR4i going on eBay :) I swear you make an artform out of it.

"No expense has been spared"

"This car has no MOT".

Ahem.

formatting link
I'm watching that, but it's a long way from me and Type 9 boxes should be distributed around the country quite well, I reckon :)

I wonder how hard it is to recon a Type 9 yourself without special tools...

Richard

Reply to
RichardK

Surely that's just a poverty 3 door that's been 'rebuilt' with a cheap Cosworth lookalike kit and 2.8i engine?

Whichever way they did it, it's a heap of shit.

Reply to
SteveH

Thinking about it, Ford were really on a roll round then though. You had the XR2, XR3i, RS Turbo (sweeeeeet..... but chav), XR4 and Cosworth. Slightly later on there was the Granada Cossie, Sierra Sapphire Cossie, XR4x4 and Escort Cosworth. Not amazingly powerful by today's standards, but legendary at the time. And that's not including the Crapi...

Fast forward 15 years.... The Granada ended up as the hideous Scorpio, selling fewer cars than the Aston Martin DB7. The Sierra has been replaced by a (admittedly quite good) FWD rep-mobile. And they're only just getting back into the idea of hot hatches, with the Focus RS and ST. Oh, and the Capri was replaced with the Probe, then Cougar. Dear oh dear....

Nick

Reply to
NickD

Yep and yep. Which is why (AFAIK) it's pretty hard to find parts from the 'pov' 3-door model.

Nick

Reply to
NickD

Mk 1, maybe. Mk II is horrid. XR2i... I've had one of those too, and I was pleasantly surprised, but I would call it 'good'.

A bit fragile compared to the Golf though.

Ugh. Especially in S2 form, foul.

Which was a 1960s design anyway.

And providing the underpinnings to the DEW98 platform, AKA Ford Thunderbird, Lincoln LS, Jaguar S-Type, and current Mustang... the 2.3

16V is also a Cosworth engine.

The Probe was just sad. Unforgiveable. The Cougar I quite liked the look of, and that's half the battle with coupes.

Richard

Reply to
RichardK

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.