MR2s...

Well, now that the MX5 is going (just waiting for the new owner to pick it up), I'm thinking about getting another trackday shed. The Evo is out for that because (a) it's on ebay and (b) I wanted purer/rawer RWD driving experience.

So I'm looking at N/A MR2s, working on the assumption that they're a bit quicker than the MX5 without having to faff about with an S/C or turbo conversion, bits aren't too expensive either and neither are the cars.

I'm mainly keeping my eye out for a post-1994 one (to get the 170bhp engine) but has anybody driven both the earlier 158bhp and the later one? Much difference between the two?

Reply to
Timo Geusch
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Why not just buy something that handles properly?

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Reply to
SteveH

170bhp - that's the MkII isn't it? Bit lardy compared to the Mk1 and has interesting handling, I found them a bit understeery until they decide not to be. They seem to have become cheap though - cheaper than contemporary VVC MGFs.
Reply to
Tim S Kemp

Yes. Late Mk2, actually.

They all say that. Rogue Motorsports however has the lap times to back up that they're a tad quicker than the Mk1.

There's a supposedly quite nice Mk1 for sale here in Ashford and I'm probably going to check it out, but the problem with that is that they're pretty much at the same performance level as the MX5, and I'd like a little more grunt.

You had an early one, right? The later ones that I'm thinking of had this "flaw" fixed. And understeer is usually a function of the setup.

Indeed, and they're Toy-ow-tas so they'll probably take the abuse a bit better.

Reply to
Timo Geusch

Actually I would suggest that the 944s are a bit of a wallowy barge until you start modding the suspension.

I am looking at them but I think most of the prices for S2s on PH are unrealistic, and it would have to be either a 2.7 or an S2.

Plus, they've got running costs that get close to the 911; the MR2 should be somewhat cheaper to run simply because parts don't cost a bomb.

Reply to
Timo Geusch

Hmmmm, but at least you're starting off from a good place - engine at front, gearbox at the rear.

Watching them on the track days I did last year, they look huge fun in an Alfa 75-esque, easy to control, 4-wheel drifting kind of a way.

Are you sure about that? - Jap. parts can be eye-wateringly expensive.

At least in a 944 people won't think you're a camp hairdresser....

Reply to
SteveH

Be sure to take a magnet with you.

Get rid of more sheds and invest the pooled money (and a bit more) in an S2000 or even an Elise?

Reply to
JackH

Oh, I will.

The whole point of the exercise is to get something reasonably cheap that doesn't break my heart if I stick it into the tyre wall or the kitty litter, otherwise I might as well take the 911.

I did look at Elises but they're still on the wrong side of 6k-7k.

Reply to
Timo Geusch

... which roughly gives you the same weight distribution as on a mid-engined car :).

They supposedly are, but I can do that with an MX5.

Yes, I did check beforehand. I know what 944 parts prices are like because they're not that different from 911 ones as soon as you venture into Porker-only territory and parts for MR2s are surprisingly cheap in comparison if you buy from the right sort of specialist. Even the TRD parts aren't that expensive.

As if that would bother me :). If I needed to demonstrate my stupidity/cojones I'd need to get a 944 turbo anyway.

Reply to
Timo Geusch

Forget the gay connotations - you can pick up an early 2.8 Z3 now for under £3k.

I've been in one years ago and loved it... which has now got me thinking again, you utter, utter bastard! :-D

I'm buying nowt for now til I've done whatever with the Passat and then either dispose of that or the Golf.

Reply to
JackH

Other than the broken battery tray, what exactly is wrong with the MX5 as a track tool?

You don't need the extra power - most people go chasing power to compensate for their driving skills.

Surely you'd be better off just concentrating on going faster in what you've got? - anything with more power just means your inevitable trip into the kitty-litter and tyre-wall will happen at a higher speed.

When an instructor took me around in my 75, I was amazed at how much quicker he was than all the 'professional' track-day anoraks in their tweaked cars that had arrived on trailers. In a pretty much bog-standard

4-door saloon.
Reply to
SteveH

I haven't seen them that cheap yet. Guess I'd have to check out what the availability of go-faster bits is for those...

Mind you, something with a tin roof would have it's advantages....

Reply to
Timo Geusch

The fact that I'd end up spending more and more money on it to get some more power out of it, plus the added insurance and all that bollocks. By the time I am where I want to be I've got to sink another

1500+ into it for bodywork, supercharger fitting (OK, I can do that myself), aftermarket ECU with rolling road mapping blah blah.

I'd rather spend a little money on a slightly uprated suspension on a faster car and the rest on instruction.

Well, that's harsh but true - the trouble is that I do have the lowest power car on most, if not all trackdays and the skill level is just above "don't need sat nav to find my way around the track". I want more torque, preferably, so I at least stand a chance to keep up with some people. Even at Lydden Hill with its really short straights I get past people at the corners and then they'll just murder me on the straight. And that's the novice group...

That's also why I'm not looking at taking the Evo on the track because it's one of these cars that makes you so much better and thus removes the learning effect.

True.

I know. But in contrast to most other people on here :) I know I'm no driving god and I'm trying to compensate a little for that.

Please note that I still choose handling over power, otherwise I could just get an MR2 turbo and scare myself silly.

Reply to
Timo Geusch

I have - early ones, but still within that ballpark.

328i Coupe, then.

Even cheaper - they're stupidly cheap now on eBay. :-)

Skyline R32/33 GTS?

You can get a good one for £3k or less now from what I've seen.

Reply to
JackH

But a far worse polar moment. Mid-engine rules.

944 parts in the USA are far cheaper than in Germany. On the extremely positif side for the 944 : nothing goes wrong and everything is available (and developed). It just depends on the amount of cash you want to "invest".

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If you don't find the Porsche-related stuff on that forum, chances are it doesn't exist.

As to 944-parts on the same price-level as the 911-part: no.

Great place to find (very) cheap 944-parts is Ebay Germany. I bought a few years back a "M030"-suspension with new Eibach -springs from the Turbo S for 150 Eur... at Porsche you pay an invoice for the same numbers but put a "0" behind. The dampers come then without springs.

951 (944 Turbo) is indeed the one to have. The S2 (3.0l) is just not powerfull enough and tuning the NA-4potter is hugely expensif.

When you have a 944 Turbo (standard 250 HP) you can start looking around for the Cup-bits or the 944 Turbo S (suspension M030 / ECU and intercooler). These bits make the 944 turbo from a very good car a car which can affront all but the most recents 911 Turbo's/GT2-3.

350 HP is no problem and easy/cheaply available, 450 is possible while keeping reliability reasonable. Everything above 500 HP gets expensif and results in a very raw engine. But then there are those who like spinning wheels at 160 kph...

There is however a valuable alternatif for a serious fun and quick trackcar, which is surprisingly enough very relaiable and one which comes ready to go: why not considering a Lotus Elise / Exige.

See it as the MX5 with more power, better brakes, far better steering, roadholding for another world and... 600 kg less.

An Elise/Exige with the Turbo Technics supercharger has close to no match on any circuit. If the wallet (and SWMBO) allow: an Elise with the Honda S2000-lump of Audi turbo... they have no competition at all.

Pay attention to the Lotus: it's kind of addictif.

Tom De Moor

Reply to
Tom De Moor

My mate had a '95 UK n/a model, so probably around what you're looking at. To be honest, it was a bit of a disappointment. He was the first one of us to get a "I'm not 17 any more and can insure cars" car, and it just didn't feel like 170bhp. There was nothing wrong with it, as one of his work mates had a turbo, previously an n/a and he drove it a few times and said it was just like his was. It also had a full history, and pretty low miles, about

60k iirc - was due a belt the previous owner had skipped as they were selling the car, wasn't cheap either when he had it done I don't think. Then, it was done at a Toyota main dealer...

Anyway as I say, it never felt as fast as we'd expected, and also the handling was pretty poor even with a brand new set off those MR2 specific tyres, it just seemed to need more grip. I guess the issue with the power was that it was all at the top end, and it was a bit poor low down. This gave another issue as coming out of roundabouts etc you needed second for any real pace - but this tended to upset it, and wasn't even worth thinking about in the wet. Indeed I was once passengering in our mates Astra 2.2 SRi and the MR2 was easy pickings, and that was with only what, 144bhp? It wasn't that good on fuel either.

The good side though is that it was pretty reliable, he owned it for 3 years and all the buttons worked, the leather was very nice and had worn well, in that it wasn't worn at all. It never broke down or let him down although it needed a rear caliper or maybe both rear calipers rebuilt or replaced for an MOT one year, and now I think about it, for the last like, year of his ownership the clutch was pretty much begging to be replaced. It must have been very close to death as well, as he traded it into the local Honda dealer as the first thing they said after they'd looked it over was that it needed a new clutch.

He traded it in for an 03 Civic Type-R a couple of years ago which is faster, handles better, looks better (IMO - the MR2 is very dated, not that this matters for a track car), uses less fuel etc etc. The only downside been that it was of course, quite a lot more cash :-)

Reply to
DanB

I got the impression from a "how to" on internet the engine speed prop shaft needed new bearings on a regular basis.

Reply to
Peter Hill

you always say that but my MR2 parts were always less or the same as the BMW i had (although the MR2 parts i looked up in case they did break, with the BMW i looked them up and ordered lol) why not try and find an MR2 with the beams engine? there 200bhp :)

Reply to
Vamp

bah MR2 Turbo's aint scary, grab an NA track it a bit then sell it and get a turbo they aint that expensive. could never bring myself to get an NA MK2 it is 100 times + better with a turbo! failing that save a bundle and buy a pre track equipped MK1 MR2, few about cos of the MK1 race series, have a giggle in that and drop the supercharger engine in it from alevin :)

Reply to
Vamp

you say more grunt but i think an MX5 with less power feels as quick if not a tad quicker than an NA MK2 MR2. if you want grunt grab a turbo! the MR2 MK1 is a great little car but can snap on you even at low speeds (as i know) my MK2 was a bit nicer, actually gave you half a chance to catch it, although mine was a rev2 not a rev1 which were criticized for being a bit snap oversteer

Reply to
Vamp

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