OT:(possibly) Insurance Scam

Set of Spax adjustables all round and they'd be sorted :)

Reply to
Lordy
Loading thread data ...

If the wheels aren't on the floor they aren't going to grip. If the springs and dampers aren't allowing the suspension to travel quickly enough to absorb bumps its going to bounce or break. I've done this in a 5GT it was way too hard and started bunny hopping over a gentle rise at speed, they were top adjustable so it was easy enough to alter but i learned that lesson well. I reckon most of the give was coming from the air in the tyres. The road behind the hump was flat (and straight) but the car took a while, far too long to settle. The balance IMHO is having enough spring stiffness assisted by moderately reduced shock absortion to sit the car down while they're being loaded up in corners, during acceleration and braking. Much better than it wallowing about IMO but the trade off is a harsher bumpier ride. In corners it reduces tipping, that's my only reason for lowering. Stiffness helps to reduce the centre of gravity being thrown about as much within the 4 corners but as with anything there is a trade off and too much is well dangerous.

That's what i've done, it feels that way. Wider tyres are part of it.

I guess this is true of all things. The tyres, road surface, suspension setup is one of the more critical setups though.

Reply to
Johnny

Well, on certain (admittedly very few) types of road surfaces, ABS is better left off. However, it's pretty unlikely you're gonna need to slam the brakes hard when going over, say, a thick layer of gravel (which is where having the ABS off would probably be a good thing).

Also, ABS does have the potential to go wrong, which can be even worse. A friend of mine had a car which surprised him one day. He locked the wheels in the wet, the ABS kicked in and released the brakes. They didn't come back on again until he released his foot from the pedal and re-applied.

However, on the 'I've never needed ABS note' - cars with decent brakes and good tyres rarely ever get to the point where the ABS should kick in. I've known people to have a great deal of difficulty forcing themselves to brake hard enough to test out the ABS in their cars. It's probably nice to know it's there though.

Chris.

Reply to
Chris B

You are right they are about as low as they can go on any course without bottoming out on the plank (introduced to make sure they ran higher).

Reply to
Depresion

Was going to make that point, they do actually bottom out on the carbon fibre plank (as you're well aware) but too much wear in the race and the car gets disqualified. Given free reign the car would have ground effects and be as low as they could possibly get it without totally bellying out.

Reply to
Johnny

It's a bit like when people make an argument against fitting larger wheels that in F1 all the teams only run 13" wheels. If they could run bigger ones they would to allow bigger breaks.

Reply to
Depresion

I think you'll find the plank is jabroc. And if they had free reign, they prolly would run true ground effect, but bear in mind that was pretty much banned before the plank came in. They just ran flat bottomed cars as close to the ground as possible, in order to lower the CoG, and gain as much aero effect as possible. Then Senna died, and the FIA kneejerked and stuck wood on the bottom of the cars, amongst other things.

The wear allowed is 1mm over a defined area, IIRC, and yet another rule that can be used at the FIA's discretion to manipulate the championship if viewing figures fall :(

Reply to
Stuffed

But that's a non-issue, as you say.

Well if your non-ABS brakes don't come on when you hit the pedal, you're equally screwed !

Modern ABS systems are very reliable indeed - and what's more, they'll deactivate themselves at the slightest hint of a problem (and you'll know this, cos the ABS light on your dash will tell you :)

Er, have you ever driven on a wet road ?

Yes, because it only does it's thing when one or more of the wheels are STARTING to lock (it doesn't let them lock, at all, ever). As you say above, that doesn't really happen in the dry, unless you REALLY mash the pedal.

However - that's not really the point of ABS. It's there so you can still steer whilst stopping - if you decide you aren't gonna make it, the ABS will let you steer round the obstacle, or into something less hard, whilst still applying maximum possible stopping power (governed by the laws of physics).

Without ABS, the only way to do that is to significantly release the pedal pressure - but then you stop scrubbing speed...

Reply to
Nom

A. Your non-ABS system may also go wrong.

B. When your ABS system does go wrong, it simply becomes a perfectly normal non-ABS system !

Clearly the situation your friend found himself in, doesn't usually happen :)

Not if your're on a muddy country lane, or your passenger side is in the gravelly road gutter, or it's raining, or you're trying to steer around the child in the road, or one of the wheels loses grip over a bump, or...

See my point ?

Yep, I can tell that from your posts :)

I'd also never had an ABS car until I got my TI.

Having owned it for 18 months, I can tell you that ABS is an excellent invention !

I used to do exactly the same in my previous car.

The trouble is, you're releasing brake pressure to ALL the wheels by doing that - hence seriously increasing your stopping distance.

The ABS system, will simply release pressure to the locking wheel(s) - the wheel(s) with plenty of grip, will still get the full stopping power.

Reply to
Nom

That depends on the ABS system in question not all of them do individual wheels (particularly older ones)modern ones will also change the amount of breaking in the other wheels to help keep the car travelling in the right direction rather than pulling to the side with grip. I've only ever had my ABS kick in twice both times going down hill and hitting a small patch of black ice, I don't think it helped on those occasions but I'd rather it was there in case I will help avoid a collision in future.

Reply to
Depresion

Bad thing replying to my own post but just gotta say Adrian Flux are alright. They actually listened to what I was saying to them, moved and acted on it. Restores a bit of my faith in the human nature and common sense of those working in (some) insurance firms. Job well done Adrian Flux Insurance.

Reply to
Johnny

I read both your posts and you're taking what I've written out of context. Sorry, I have a habit of when it gets late at night, I'm bored or I'm at a certain level of drunkardness I begin to prattle on about things without really making a point! I was never trying to say that I'm better off without ABS... I was just following up on the previous poster's argument. I guess I should've summarised to say that whilst in the main, ABS is a very good thing to have (and I would be happy to have a car with it), there are certain extreme situations where it could be considered more dangerous. Of course the benefits outweigh the costs and I wasn't trying to state otherwise.

Again, I wasn't trying to say that cars with decent brakes and tyres don't NEED ABS, just that it's very rare for a driver to actually need ABS. I said that because a previous poster stated that he'd never needed to use ABS. Well of course, you don't go down the road locking your wheels up everytime you stop, do you? So I said.. 'cars with decent brakes and good tyres rarely ever get to the point where the ABS should kick in'. IOW, of course he hadn't had to use the ABS in the few occasions he'd driven a car with ABS. Why should he have?

See my point?

;)

Actually I just realised that I did used to own a car with ABS. My Mazda RX-7 Turbo II, which I drove for a year-and-a-bit. I never once locked the wheels. Maybe I should've driven it faster? ;)

So, just to clear up, I was never bragging that I don't drive cars with ABS because I don't need ABS. Anyone who thinks otherwise would be somewhat deluded. I've been in cars with people who locked their wheels and ABS is a marvellous invention. People who don't like it usually do so because it takes a little bit of involvement out of driving.

That does somewhat depend on the system. Modern systems, yes. But I am not about to buy a brand new car or one that is relatively new. Hell, I just bought a Porsche 924 so I'm kinda going backwards, technologically speaking.

Chris.

Reply to
Chris B

Yup. Dunno if you read my other post in this thread talking about when I modified the engine on my car. No insurance company would touch me. Adrian Flux got me a quote which was cheaper than my previous, non-modded insurance. They're always very helpful when I phone them up and usually get me good quotes. They got me a what I thought was a reasonable quote for this Porsche 924 I've now got - I rang around a few places and no one could match it. SureTerm direct told me to not 'even bother phoning anyone else, that's that best quote you'll get'. That's something when an insurance company admits defeat and doesn't even *try* to sell me a policy!

Chris.

Reply to
Chris B

With the nitrous system installed (which it isn't yet) giving a 66% power increase on boost over standard (which it isn't) their quote is still 100 quid cheaper than "quote me happy" offered for a standard unmodified GT.

Reply to
Johnny

The other killer with ABS is a dodgy battery/alternator - had a sphincter-clencher when driving an old Rover 800 with a gammy (okay, f**ked - the car had to be kept over 1500rpm for anythign electrical to work..) battery and approaching a T-junction. Approaching from the cenre of the T, a nice stone embankment and roadsign in front and hit the brakes only for the pedal to go absolutely mental, rock-hard and no braking whatsoever. Reapplied and it went mental then stopped then went mental again, finally settling on letting the driver's side rear wheel lock up with not a lot of braking effort from any other wheel. Junction approaching a little too rapidly at this point to back off the brake so held pedal,lenched butt-cheeks and applied /almost/ enough opposite lock, finally ending up across the full width of the mnior road with a fair bit of essex grassbank ahnging off of each bumper. Had had never misbehaved previously and hasn't since replacing the battery - moral of the tale is to make sure the main electricals (not just the ABS ones) are okay if you're driving something with ABS...

Along the "there's ABS then there's ABS" topic - Renault Megane ABS is complete rubbish; having a response time of approximately 1 car's length at 30mph. Result - one wet manhole and a momentary wheel-lock results in the ABS releasing the brakes for a full car's length after the manhole. Deffo better off without it I'm afriad.

Mercedes ABS/EBD (on the full-size cars anyways) - whoa! Mash the brakes at 100 leptons/hour on a hot dry road and it'll sit there verging on wheel lockup, ABS/EBD triggered from 100 right down to zero, and leave your brain trying to dribble out yer nose and a dirty great seatbelt bruise down your chest. :o

Reply to
marko

Marko,

Your descriptions are hilarious. I don't care about ABS anymore, I'm laughing too much! I've had my fair share of driving messed-up cars. Had some trouble once with a replaced carb on my old Peugeot 305 - it wouldn't idle. Just stalled instead. I drove it for about a week using heel/toe to keep the revs up under braking. Worked fine until one day I had my stereo up loud, couldn't hear the revs dropping off when coming to a junction so looked down at my tachometer. By the time I looked up again (we're talking like 2 or 3 seconds here), I had just about enough time to realise I'd badly mis-judged the amount of braking required and was about to run straight into the back of a Vauxhall Carlton.

0.25s later, I DID run straight into the back of a Vauxhall Carlton. The woman I hit must have thought I was mad, as I got out of my car laughing in disbelief at my own stupidity, as she moaned that her bumper had come off the hooks that hold it to the side. Hardly any damage to her car at all. I laughed even harder when I saw the damage to my car. The front was pretty much totalled - lights out, bent up bonnet and wing - but, almost confusingly, my front bumper was still in the right place and didn't have a scratch on it.

BTW, did you see the Merc SLR on Top Gear? Ceramic brakes. Clarkson mashed 'em on full from 120mph down to 0 and stopped within the standard stopping distance for 60-0. Jesus.

Chris.

Reply to
Chris B

Didn't the Elise have a ceramic & aluminium disk set-up? They were terrifying as they provided almost no stopping power at all when cold & not having a test track to thrash round on getting them up to temperature was no mean feat. When cold the Elise could be out braked by a beetle with drums all round.

Reply to
Depresion

Blimey!! Well, these Merc SLR brakes certainly stopped, although Clarkson didn't mention if he had to get them up to temperature first. I wouldn't have thought so, but now you mention it, I do know that ceramic brakes always used to have to be hot to work properly. They did show a shot of them both glowing red under heavy braking, and later with flames coming off them after stopping. So yes, they definately get VERY hot! I suppose the SLR is a much heavier car than the Elise, so more braking effort is required and therefore they get hotter a lot quicker than the Elise could.

Chris.

Reply to
Chris B

Yeah. It's amazing really. These companies rip consumers off left right and centre because it seems like people just don't shop around enough. I think if you drive around in a 'normal', run-of-the-mill granniemobile then the major companies will give you a decent quote. Anything even slightly fast, I guess they make sooo much money they'll fleece you for everything you've got and, if you walk away, they're still making pots and pots so it just doesn't matter. I think maybe in their minds, it's guys with fast or modded cars who seem to have the expensive accidents, so I guess they're effectively pricing out the people who are likely to make a claim.

Chris.

Reply to
Chris B

IIRC, drums are actually more efficient at stopping you, but fade far too quickly, which is why discs are better.

I've got a servo. And discs. And the brakes are still crap. It's down to having nearly a ton of car, on solid discs, that are very small and coupled to a not awe inspiring servo. I had a similar car, with a bit less weight, and the same sized everything else, no servo (early version fo the current car, in a way). The brakes were still crap. At the end fo the day, titchy swept area on a bulky - ish car is just not good for stopping power!

Safety would be much improved if I modified my brakes, there's a club approved mod that makes them work very nicely indeed. But my insurer wouldn't accept it.

My policy is dirt cheap, being classic. But the company is not none standard friendly, even if the not standard bits are in the name of reliability or safety. Just the way they seem to work :(

Reply to
Stuffed

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.