OT: v6 what's the point!

Stranger things have happened:

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Heh.

Bizarrely, I was in a Pigsasshole today. TDi jobbie. What a strange experience.

Reply to
SteveH
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For a split second I had a weird mental image of some souped-up Citroen ZX :-)

Peter

-- "You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned a Citroen Xsara Picasso

1.4"
Reply to
AstraVanMan

i love a good carlton

Reply to
Theo

Try telling that to Honda with their 1200bhp 1.5 V6 ;-)

Reply to
SteveH

"SteveH" wrote

heheheh.

You said "jobbie".

Douglas

Reply to
Douglas Payne

Perhaps he's having problems understanding usenet? Or simply needs help but is getting unhelpful answers? Maybe he should subscribe to: uk.net.beginners for friendly advice in a flame-free environment.

-- Chet

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HF Integrale 16v - Gettin there!1993 Renault 19 16v - Subtle extras like a T3 ;)

Reply to
Chet

Are you hard of thinking as well? If he wants to learn more about usenet, he's welcome to go to uk.net.beginners. Where he will get helpful answers and the moderators ensure that the group is flame free.

This isn't uk.net.beginners.

Reply to
Steve Firth

V6 is completely behind the front axle, supposed to give better balance. More likely to give a big soft crumple zone to get though both pedestrian and offset impact tests [1]. Same thing with the speaker shelf rear strut brace and front strut tower brace, they are there to brace the car in side impact tests by spreading the impact to the other side of the car, not for fashion or handling. But yes it is pants. Made for stupid Yanks, bigger is better mentality. Sub

80bph/L from a firm that makes 125bhp/L turbos. The Silvia S15 with a 250bhp 4 pot turbo could match it within 0.1sec on 0-60 and 1/4 miles times. Near 50/50 balance and it had 2 back seats. And it was 1 inch lower and lighter. And...it's piss easy to add 100bhp, don't even have to take the head off. Having 6 cylinders (and in the case of V6 two heads) makes tuning cost at least 50% more, lack of turbos means first 100bhp is very expensive (you need two).

Unless you take the power from the middle of the crank like Kawa 1300 and Honda CBX you can have big torsional vibration problems. The crank winds up and unwinds more as it has to transmit power though more crank throws and bearings to reach the clutch. Motorcycles use "slip grip" and "big bang" to control the power. On a 4 they fire 1 and 4 together then 1/2 a rev later 2 and 3, have 1 1/2 revs dwell, then fire them again. Or they use a 90 degree crank in place of a flat plane one to move power pulses to an uneven pattern. Makes the tyre slip at every big double bang or close pair of bangs and then it gets to recover and grip during the dwell. Gives rider better control of wheelspin, smooth even power pulses just slide the rear wheel uncontrollably away as the tyre never gets to grip.

For a given size of cylinder a 4 is lighter and stronger, while the straight 6 will be heavier not just due the extra two cylinders but it needs a heavier crankcase to help control the whip of the long crank. If you make a same capacity 4 and a 6 then the 6 will again be heavier.

BMW didn't chose to go F1 racing with a 1400bhp turbo 4 cylinder due to stupidity. They had a choice short stroke the 2.0L 4 or the 2.0L 6 down to 1500cc, they chose the 4. Renault didn't go F1 racing with a V6 turbo due to stupidity either, only 3 throws on the crank to cause whip. Of course they didn't want a long engine behind the driver adding length to the car either.

Benefits of big V8's are a myth too. People that buy big V8's would sneer at a 2.5L or worse yet 3.5L 4, yet they have two of the clunky things! Then they claim low revs are a virtue, it cruises at 70mph in top at 1600rpm = 6400 bangs per min. A 4 may do 70mph in top at

3200rpm, guess what = 6400 bangs per min. Then they claim it has huge amounts of midrange torque. Sure does, it needs double the amount of torque at 1600 rpm as the 4 pot at 3200 rpm when they have geared it do 70mph in top to get that low number of bangs per min in cruise. [1] The Madza RX8 has mid engine too. Mate thinks they should fit a front mount dicky seat for the kids in the bonnet using the space not used by the engine. It would really give the safety people a dicky fit.

-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

Reply to
Peter Hill

That doesn't prove anything, you do realise that the gear ratios and diff ratio make a difference to acceleration don't you? The Skyline GTR also has 4wd so it's almost guaranteed to cover the first

60ft faster than a 2wd 300ZX could.

and as we know a skyline can be tuned to

Just because one I6 engine can be tuned higher than one V6 engine doesn't make all I6's better than all V6's. If you tune a Skyline to 1000bhp there's very little of the original engine left.

Reply to
Homer

In news:cd6mqn$rgo$ snipped-for-privacy@news7.svr.pol.co.uk, REMUS decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

Er, I used to own a 3.0 GSi 24v Carlton. And it used to feel like it was working harder than it should be. Very long legged, true, but the traditional straight six problem of not much torque bottom end was present and correct even with the Dual Ram intake manifold etc.

My Alfa 164 V6s were a far nicer car to drive, and they had some of the best engines the world has ever seen. engines are still in production in fact.

*Much* more responsive than the Carlton engine, much better sounding, much better on fuel, lighter, and it felt a whole lot torquier. Especially the Q4, the engine in that was an absolute joy.

There you go then, compare two of my old motors; Carlton GSi3000 24v and Alfa Romeo 164Q4 (24v)

Carlton - 204 bhp, 199 lb ft Alfa 24v - 230 bhp, 202 lb ft

Both "Sports Saloons" I think you'll find...

Reply to
Pete M

I'd rather have the ZX than a liner.

Reply to
Theo

That's a *LUDICROUS* comparison - they're completely different cars !!!!

Reply to
Nom

He wants a 350Z - he has no choice !

Er, because the same engine in V or Straight configuration, will barely change weight at all. It's likely to be lighter as a V, cos the crank is half as long. Think about it - you're basically just chopping the Straight in half, and sticking one half onto the side of the other.

Er...

It's not an "assumption" ! See above !

Why do you think the V would be heavier ?!?!?

Why ? The V6 is plenty good - they have nothing to gain by using the Skyline's lump !

Half the appeal of the 350Z is that's it's an NA V engine !

But there's nothing better about the straights...

Reply to
Nom

All Japanese domestic cars are limited to 180km/h. A GTR would shit on a

300ZX in virtually every respect.

Fraser

Reply to
Fraser Johnston

OK. Why not compare the Vauxhall Carlton GSI and Vauxhall Omega MV6. The Carlton has a 3.0L I6 24V engine. When the Vauxhall Omega Elite/MV6 came out, they ditched the I6 and put in a 3.0L V6 24V. I think this is due to cost as they can share the V6 with all the FWD cars from the range.

The cars are physially simular, both RWD 4 door sallons.

The omega is slower to accelerate and less revvy than the Carlton but has more low down grunt IMHO.

Official specs are (both cars use the same gearbox ratios:

3.81:1,2.11:1,1.34:1,1.00:1,0.81:1 FD 3.70:1)

Omega: cc: 2962

210PS @ 6000rpm, 199.2lb.ft. @ 3400rpm Max Speed: 151 0-62: 8.0 MPG Urban: 18.0 MPG Extra Urban: 3.0 MPG Combined: 25.7

Carlton: cc: 2969

204PS @ 6,000rpm, 199.2lb.ft @3600rpm Max Speed: 149 0-62: 7.6 MPG Urban 19.8

I guess the top speed difference is due to the aerodynamics. The two cars are quite different to drive, but it boils down to personal preference IMHO. In the real world both are capable, I know the I6 is better balanced, but you don't notice on the road.

Keep well all,

Will

Reply to
Will Reeve

He's overlooked they share crank webs and main bearings. The V6 crank is only 3 bigends longer than a 3 cylinder. They also share sumps and the lower part of the crankcase. It's like you chop the engine in half, and then cut the top half, with the bores in, off both bits and attach them both to just one of the lower parts. So a V6 has about

3/4 of the engine mass of an I6.

-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

Reply to
Peter Hill

To avoid the imposition of a legal power limit, Japanese makers introduced an agreement that no car would have more than 208Kw (=276bhp) quoted power. The actual power on the RB26 was a lot more (about 50bhp more), the ZX is about right as you have quoted a limited top speed and export bhp.

That's because ZX coated alloy bores go plastic at about 800bhp. I have yet to hear of someone boring them out and putting steel liners in like they do on SR20DET's running over 600bhp. No Skyline running much over 800bhp has a RB26DETT, they usually have a RB27DETT (look it up). The RB27 block is a specially cast one (not Nissan) to take the higher bhp and costs a packet (about £40K for the engine build). As Homer pointed out, on 1000bhp ones about the only Nissan bit left is the head casting. Only Jap engines I know of running 1000bhp on stock cases are Supra and RX7.

-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

Reply to
Peter Hill

Are they still doing that idiocy? Both hardtop and ragtop are available off the dealer's forecourt in the USA and they are selling with discounts. They wanted an exclusive image. Exclusive it is, I've only seen 3 in the last 6 months. Image, well if you never see them it can't have an image can it? I see lots of RX8's around.

I got a Nissan mailshot last week. Tick the box and return for a brochure. Didn't even list the 350Z.

-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

Reply to
Peter Hill

1000 bhp RX7!!! How much boost, how many RPM, how much ££££? Can it be done to an RX8 so you can scare three friends at a time?

I want one!

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

the general feelin I get from a bit of googling is that I6 are better performing

Reply to
Theo

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