Sign of the times...

"Tim S Kemp" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Or PSA/Ford HDi

AIUI, design & factory by Toyota, production engineering & logistics by PSA.

Reply to
Adrian
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"DanB" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

They're _everywhere_. Have been for months.

Reply to
Adrian

That one is more Suzuki than Fiat and ISTR is built at Suzuki's Hungarian plant.

Reply to
SteveH

With current models I don't think you get to choose. I remember Stradas and Tipos where the ride could be either good or sporty depending on model. Now they're either bouncy or harsh, not quite getting comfort or sportiness right on any of the current range.

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

That's all down to personal feelings, though.

Most people seem to rave about the ride and handling of the Focus - I find it remote and rubbery.

A lot of people say that the 156 is 'harsh', but I find it spot on.

Reply to
SteveH

Reply to
SteveH

Car manufacturer tie-ups often end in regret. I bet the biggest "writing of cheque through gritted teeth" would have been the one for the petrol engines for the first series of the new MINI.

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

The focus ride is a bit average, soft but well damped. The thing about the focus that sets it above the rest is the steering, precise and well weighted. In reality handling is 70% steering feel 30% grip from a driver's point of view so cars that feel right in the steering (focus / mondeo / jag / bmw / merc for example) always instantly feel better to drive than others that don't.

156 is sporty, not harsh - I never find the ride on them (on sensible wheels) bad at all, but the steering is a bit odd. Great when in the mood for a thrash but the rack is too quick to be relaxing on the motorway. Better than anything Fiat currently make and badge as a fiat - not driven a 159.
Reply to
Tim S Kemp

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

So a French car is OK, so long as it has a Toyota badge?

That's perilously close to those kinds of people who won't buy 'that Japanese crap', but happily bought Rover 400s.

Reply to
SteveH

Of the modern Fords I've driven, they're just above average at everything, but don't have anything that makes them stand out - Citroens generally have amazing ride quality, Alfas are sporty, but the Fords just sit in the middle, being neither one thing or another. Suppose that's fine for most people, but it's not a good enough reason for me to buy one.

The S-Type rides and handles very well, but it's just too big, IMHO, to be a great drive. Wouldn't want to try thrashing one over Welsh mountain roads.

Of the BMWs I've tried, I just found them too hard riding for their badge - ie. the SE rides how the M-Sport should and the M-Sport rattles your fillings.

You soon get used to the quick rack. I don't find it an issue on motorways, it's usually low-speed stuff around town that catches me out

- even then, it's generally only when I've jumped into a 156 after driving something else.

For me, Fiat have lost their way a bit - I've driven the Grande Punto and the Bravo and loved them both, but they don't have anything that I'd buy these days - mostly because they don't bring some of their better stuff into the UK. (They make a Bravo based saloon that looks very smart in dark colours, but it's only sold in less well developed markets)

Not tried a 159, but, despite the amazing styling, I just feel they're a bit too big to be an Alfa sports saloon. Thinking about it, no-one really offers a mid-sized sports saloon these days - I'm thinking about something that fits in where the E30 and 75 / 155 / 156 used to sit. The current 3-series is closest to this size, but it's still huge.

Reply to
SteveH

No it's not. It's a toyota design, built in a toyota factory, with a toyota engine (the diesel makes very little sense in that car being heavier and not much more economical).

I'd buy one. It would have the Toyota badge on it. I would then not have to deal with the local citroen or peugeot dealers.

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

You keep telling yourself that.

You garlic munching, cheese-eating, surrender monkey.

Reply to
SteveH

That sitting in the middle combined with loads of dealers and good deals for retail sales translates to good sales figures. There may be nothing outstanding about a mondeo or focus but they do very little wrong.

Oh why not? I like medium to large cars, they can defy all expectations on that kind of road (and no one ever expects to see a big car being driven like that) but as long as it puts a smile on your face and doesn't try to kill you one the way. Yes a Civic R, or a 156 is a good way to get 4 people having a real laugh over a mountain road, but a CLS, or a 5 series, or an E class, or an S type, or a Quattroporte, or a Scaglietti, or even a 7 series, CL or S class or XJ is an even better way.

Indeed the 3 series is like that, but I'm sure that BMW have deliberately done this to make people buy 5s... The new C class is a bit hard in sport spec too.

But mid size now is E/5. 3 / C / 159 is small. 159 is just too heavy though - had it been RWD and a rear transaxle (a modern day 75?) it would have been ace. It is still the best looking car in its class on sale in the UK though.

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

(checks in fridge)

Cheddar. Emmental. Philadelphia. Caerphilly (!) Red Leicester.

And when there's brie, it's cornish.

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

It's alright, Tim.

You're with friends here. You can admit that you're a closet Francophile.

Reply to
SteveH

Non non - ce'st impossible. Je desteste le Francaise.

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

Alfa Romeo and Nissan. Instead of ending up with a car that had all the styling flair of Alfa coupled with the reliability of a Nissan, which should have resulted in a market winner, they ended up with a car that had all the hallmarks of Nissan design with the unreliability of Alfa build quality.

Reply to
Conor

Yeah, they're all going back home because the Zloty has rocketed in value whilst the GBP has plummeted.

Reply to
Conor

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