Today I have been mostly driving.

It's a fine car but it should never have had the GTi badge.

"Bob Sherunckle" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

I had a couple as company cars when they were current.

"Everyone" was right.

I agree.

I quite like the MK3s too. They're not as fun as the 306 or ZX, but they are far better built. I don't really get the whole "MK3s are terrible" thing.

I started working for a VW dealership a month or so after the mark three was launched. What people didn't like about the mark three compared with the mark two is that some of the detail didn't feel as solidly put together, engine-for-engine they weren't as pokey to drive and their handling wasn't as fun. People tended to ignore that the mark three was generally more economical (engine for engine), cheaper to service, more spacious and better equipped (that said, the run out mark twos were generally loaded).

The 2.0 GTI was universally disliked because at the time, it boasted of 115 bhp (more than the outgoing 1.8 8v of course) but lacked the charm of the old engine. More a slugger than a zinger.

Still, lots of mark threes were sold. The above were minor complaints - people liked the mark three. It just didn't have the immediate charm of the mark two.

It was an opinion of its time. It was a bit heavier than a MK2 which was heavier than a Mk1 of course. Gaining weight is a bad thing in cars, yes. The MK4 subsequently went on to be even heavier of course but had the saving grace of a choice of a 1.8T engine plus the other MK4 attributes which car enthusiasts hate but the general public love in spades, so I won't go into here.

Anyway, the MK3 was loathed for being a heavyweight at the time - it's

1060kg. A current 1.6 Polo 5 door is 1200kg. A Focus 5 door 2.0 is 1327kg but does have 142bhp. Looked at in that context, it's not a heavyweight.

I think what I'm trying to say here is that the opinion is possibly more out of date than the car is - based on where cars are these days. This is 'it suits me' logic, so I won't hear another word on it.

Not that any of you lot care right enough ;-) (Doki excepted - being a Gentleman of fine taste....)

i quite liked the MK3 Golf too but hate the MK4 and 5. and 1060kg aint heavy, my mini i think might weigh more lol

I have a couple of books on GTIs. The late MK2s are generally listed as being just a smidge over a tonne, and the early MK3s are about 60 kilos more at 1100 kilos or so. Unless my memory's playing tricks. IME the weight difference of a MK3 has been massively overstated.

All well and good, but you're not really comparing like with like. The Mk3 GTI also got a 16v engine, so either use that one in your comparisons with the Mk2, or use the Mk2 8v in the comparisons.

I bought Ronnys brothers old 8v Mk3 Golf GTi.

For all its tatty appearance, it drove bloody well.

Better than you'd expect, if your only experience of them as such at the point you jumped into it, was what you'd read from some in here.

Aye, 1140kg, according to the book. Tubby little thing.

That must be close to twice what an original Mini weighed.

I suppose its got about twice the power.

I doubt you can get a modern car with a roof and all the accompanyments we expect these days that weighs much less than a tonne.

I think the original mini was a shade over 600kg, but then it did have

38Bhp or thereabouts. My 1400 had a devastating 104Bhp. I miss that car; shouldn't have stuffed it through a wall, I suppose. Hindsight, eh?

The Citroen C1 weighs in at about 800kg, I think. It definitely has a roof, but I don't know about the rest of your spec..

The 16V wasn't available at launch, so you basically had an engine that was slightly (3bhp) more powerful than the old 8V, in a car a good hundred kilos heavier. The end result was a 0-60 time of 10 seconds. You can see why people would be miffed, and how they got such a bad name.

Nor was a Mk1 GTI with 112bhp...

As in the GTI wasn't about when the Mk1 Golf was launched, or the first Mk1 GTI didn't have 112bhp?

The latter.

112bhp came later with the introduction of the 1.8.

Ah yes - the original was a 1.6 IIRC.

It was 2 horses down on the 1.8. A complete POS. No wonder people were saying it wasn't as good as the previous class leader in a class that didn't really exist previously ;).