Vel Satis or Aventime, would you?

Yep. I'd be happy to have a PSA car as a banger, but I'm not sure I'd spend a decent amount of cash on anything from France. Except maybe a mint 205.

Hmm shit ugly, unreliable and so bady built even the French wouldn't buy them. It's a difficult decision, isn't it?

For budget motoring, I think it's about as sensible as a scruffy LPG'd Range Rover that doesn't run right. (c;

The golden years of Francophile budget motoring is in early - mid 90's Diesel PSA cars: ZX/BX/Xantia/205/306/405 IMHO.

I'd love to have a go in a V6 Avantime - I think they look pretty funky

- but I'm damn sure I wouldn't own one. Whether /I/ would own one or not isn't the point though, is it? I know you're willing to pay a bit extra for the knowledge that people will think you're a bit 'out there'.

I dunno about the Vel Satis, but I think an Avantime would not be any better on Petrol than the Celsior. I'd also be paranoid about getting panels dented/scratched and the cost of repairing or replacing any bits of it would make me weep. See parts prices for Dan's V6 Clio for more details.

Even the Frebch didn't buy them, did they? Mind, I think the Vel Satis comes with the 'cruise control stuck' get-out-of-jail-free card, IIRC.

Amen brother. One centre cap for an alloy for a 172 - £12 (about 4-5 inches across, covers all the bolts) one for the V6 - £48 - 1 inch plastic circle with a renault badge on, goes between on the nuts right in the centre (like an OZ Superturismo). How about a cat? Sure, that'll be £2,400 please sir. And a backbox, well, that'll be £1000 please, would you like us to swap it whilst we do your cambelt, which is £1,200? Panels you say? How about a nice new front bumper? That'll be £1,600 please. Rock on - my car is worth more as parts :D

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com, managed to produce the following words of wisdom

No. Just don't.

The Vel Satis was exceptional in that it was a French car with f*ck all ride quality, not that quick even with the bigger engines, expensive parts, bugger all build quality and rare enough to mean there are bugger all in scrapyards. At least my Safrane had the Volvo 2.5 motor..

The Aventime is different, the 3.0 lump is ok but not enough to carry the bloody huge lump attached to it. My brother has the similar shaped Espace and it's a nice enough thing but only in a "Well, it'll carry 7 happily" kind of way, not in a "oooh, I'd rather have this than a proper car" way.

As for the fuel consumption being better than the whale, I seriously doubt it. My old Safrane would /just/ manage 30 mpg on a run, and 17 in town if there was any traffic about - even the Scorpio can beat that, and the Scorpio probably rivals the Toyota for mpg.

The wisest thing I think you can do is forget all this weird-arse oddball stuff, oddball stuff is not the way to save money. It depreciates for a reason - because it's crap and everyone else knows it. Most of the people on this newsgroup like slightly oddball things, but the stuff you're suggesting lately is enough to make any one of us run a mile - and we're car enthusiasts. Well, most of us are...

If you want to save money, buy a cheap old PSA diesel. If you want a comfy luxobarge, keep the Toyota. If you want something weird that'll cause you no end of grief, buy an oddball Jap market only 4x4 diesel people carrier or some French weirdmobile.

Having said all that, are there any Peugeot 604 Turbodiesels left? I have a strange urge for one.

My thoughts on it were, the Megane sport with the arse looks stunning. But it is too bloody small.

This was a genuine what they like question, not a pipedream thing. As they are crap then I won't.

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Elder, managed to produce the following words of wisdom

They're mental, I'll give 'em that!

Thing is, I don't even think they'll make it to "classic" status, well, no more than an Allegro or Ambassador.

Basically, it was a nice idea that no-one wanted, but look at the Matra Rancho. A fake 4x4 20 years before anyone thought it was a good idea. Maybe we'll all be driving round in Avantime type stuff in the future.

Or all wanting one and wondering where they all went (They only sold

I can never remember which is which.

The two door one - the Avantime - would it pass the 'check youself out in a window reflection as you drive past' test ? Nah, didn't think so.

Gas up the Celsior. YKIMS.

Or "The Discovery" as they now call it.

Freeloader, surely?

Or Tata as it will be called in the next version.

Nah, the original Disco was more or less a straight clone of the Rantra Macho.

The Avantime is the ugly one, the Vel Satis is the pig ugly one.

I suspect you'll find that a Discovery is a proper 4x4.

Capable of off road things certain 4x4s can only dream of :-p

Having said that, I just don't get the Discovery thing. Never have done. If you can't afford a Range Rover, do without one. If your family means you need a seven seater, you should seriously consider murdering some of your family - preferably the younger ones. Anything to avoid owning a cheap, classless, style-less, top heavy looking, hideous piece of s**te Discovery.

Land Rover should have kept to the proper model line up.

Defender - for farmers and people who use 4x4s for work. Range Rover - for people who don't get as dirty as the people with Defenders.

The Discovery is for people who can't afford a Range Rover. The Range Rover Sport is for people who want to hide the fact they can't afford a Range Rover. Diesel Range Rovers (apart from the new V8 diesel) are for people who shouldn't have been allowed to live long enough to own a car.

Is an Explorer for people who can't afford any of them :-p?

Oh indeed and mine can do things all Land Rovers can only dream of, like turning in the same turning circle as an FX4. It's also had a level of reliability Land Rover can only dream about.

I was with the Discovery more or less up until the Disco3 which is a monumentally pointless heap of s**te. If I want a 4x4 van I'll get one of those Sprinters.

Land Rover have a sort of point, there is room for something between Defender and Rangie. Indeed there's a point to a complete replacement for the Defender which is just too stupidly difficult to assemble. The Disco isn't it, and Land Rover still miss the U part of SUV. They don't have a vehicle with a proper load bed and comfortable seating for five. The Rangie and Disco boots are just too small.

If they had managed something with a load bed like an Expedition in a European package I think it would have sold well. Especially with Zafira-style seating. Provided they could resist the Land Rover tendency to overcharge for everything.