Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

This and most of the rest of the discussion is off the mark. If you change oil at 3000 miles it is because you are interested in what the engine will be like in 300000 miles not what the oil will be like in 5000 miles. Most people don't care what the inside of the engine looks like in 300000 miles - why should they? If you are a typical new car owner you sell the car long before you discover the consequences of the maintenance intervals you use. A

7000 mile oil change interval is adequate for most new car owners. To change any more than that does them no good and will likely only benefit the 3rd owner of the vehicle.

As far as I know the type of dirt that gets into oil due to combustion byproducts is not going to be any different for synthetic oil. If you use cheap oil and filter and change every 3000 miles after 300000 miles the engine will be as clean or cleaner on the inside than the day it was driven off the lot. That is because there will not be any accumulation of grime over time. From what I have seen about 90%-98% of vehicles with more than 120K miles are not so clean on the inside. Wipe your finger on the inside of these engines and you no longer have a clean finger. I don't need to know what those cars have had for maintenance, but I'm pretty sure it definitely isn't 3000 mile oil and filter changes.

-jim

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This is the basic issue involved here. For most people, keeping their car in better condition doesn't benefit them any. I think this is a very serious problem; when I was very young my parents taught me to treat my things properly. It seems a lot of people don't remember this.

This is true, BUT it's possible that the synthetic oil can hold more combustion byproducts in suspension for longer.

And, for a lot of modern engines that are built to tight tolerances, combustion byproducts may not be the primary failure mechanism of the oil. Of course, you don't know if this is the case for your engine without doing an oil analysis.

This is sadly true. However, I will say that if you pull the valve covers on MY cars and run your finger around, it will come back clean, after 270,000 miles and 480,000 miles on each. At least, it did the last time I did valve adjustment on them which was a few months ago. I understand this is not typical, but I don't want a typical car. I want a car that runs well for a long time and doesn't cost much to keep running.

I will attribute the cleanliness of the engine more to regular oil changes every 3,000 miles than to the use of the synthetics.

--scott

People tend to follow what manufacturers recommend.

Yes to some degree synthetics will hold more grime in suspension. But still that is only good news for those who keep the engine for the short run. If you push it to the point where you are getting anywhere near saturation then some will accumulate in the crankcase and the rest will degrade the oils optimal performance. But the results don't become measurable for a very long long time.

All the oil analysis you need is to put on a white glove and wipe some inside surface of the engine. And as for tight tolerance - at some point in the life of the engine (if it lives long enough) that will no longer be true. The thing is for most people that point is past where they are still the owner.

Yes I agree mostly, but synthetics could probably extend that interval a little bit, but not as much as some people think. The main advantage of synthetics is better protection for extreme temperatures. Especially when the engine overheats. And then only some synthetics hold up well with high temperatures. It seems that some of the additives in modern oils will break down and actually become abrasive when subjected to a high enough temperature. Having an incident where the engine overheats badly is in my opinion the number one thing that shortens the life of many (most?) engines nowadays. Even if you don't end up with a cracked head or block or blown gasket it seems that it is very common that an engine will start using oil due to wear soon after overheating.

-jim

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OK so you know how to completely ignore what was written. Well done. Yes I know at 3000 miles there will be no measurable difference. After 5000 miles you won't be able to tell any difference....

No my comments were based on my own independent oil tests. And my post didn't include any recommendations for number of miles between oil changes.

Did I say anything about my engine lasting longer. I have already commented on your inability to read. Why would anybody think that someone who has reading comprehension problems knows anything about oil?

-jim

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SMS wrote: Yes, the person doing

No for me it isn't. I have a friend who believes oil requires a several 1000 miles of driving before it reaches it's peak performance value. So after "breaking in" the oil I sell it to him at a modest profit.

-jim

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I don't disagree with everything you have ever posted, just when your facts are incorrect or when our opinions differ.

I would not have posted that I use synthetic in all three cars because I do not. You can search my previous posts, and if you find where I posted that, I will humbly admit my error in that post. We got a good deal on a '97 Escort in the past year so we're up to four vehicles. The Escort does not get synthetic oil.

BTW, I have not singled out your posts to look for errors so please do not take contratictions or corrections personally. I have pointed out errors in posts from Hachiroku, TeGGeR, and several others, and have managed to maintain a cordial relationship with them. They are not offended when I contradict them, and likewise, I am not offended when they or others point out my mistakes.

I agree.

I also used to pay a lot more for Twinkies than for oil changes (and cars too), but my employer did not reimburse for or issue Twinkies.

You posted that a couple of years ago back when you had 3 cars, so I remembered that part correctly. Unfortunately, I can't easily retrieve your old posts.

Yeah, I wouldn't put synthetic in a 10 year old Escort either. The cost of one synthetic oil change would total the car. But if you bought a excellent condition 98 Camry V6 XLE like my car, continuing to use synthetic oil (as has been done from the first oil change) would be a wise choice.

If removal of a valve cover confirmed that at least the top end of the engine was as clean as the seller claimed, then continuing to use synthetic oil is probably a good bet.

I haven't removed any valve covers lately, but in my previous job visiting dealers, I used to see a lot of engines with the valve cover removed because they required valve periodic adjustments. I'd say well over half, may 75%, were clean to very clean, and I attribute the high percentage of clean engines to they type of owners dealer service departments see. Owners who use dealer service departments exclusively are willing to pay a premium to have their car properly maintained and tend to have all of the automaker's recommended services performed. Of course, the mix of work done at the dealership may include unnecessary services like transmission flushes, but done routinely, they are not harmful.

If the top end of the engine were extremely clean, I would probably continue using whatever product the original owner was using - synthetic or conventional.

Too numerous to count. Do not use Syntec.

I admit that my experiences are limited to the

Why not?

Your first sentence holds the essence of eternal truth. We know of no argument (for automobile engines) other than it costs more than a more traditional treatment.

People can choose what they will.

I used this shit in a lawn mower engine (just after break-in) and it was a BIG mistake.

I would have no problem using it in my auto if the auto specifies it, if it does not contribute to seepage, and if it costs me little or no more than traditional lubricants.

When we bought our Avalon, they told us that the problem was likely fixed, but for best practice, we should change the oil every 3000-3500 miles.

Done. Easy.

My oil has never shown any decomposition at change, visually. No sludge. Toyota also increased the oil capacity on this model to 6.4 litres per change.

That also should help sludging.

We put some12, 000 miles or LESS on this car per year. I am not going to fart around with pushing a synthetic that far, or depending on oil analysis, or any of that shit.

What I do doesnt cost much money, and I am quite happy with it.

I used synthetic in a Honda lawnmower (which cost me just a little less than a Civic). Had no problems and oil stayed clean for a long time. I sold the lawnmower 10 years later because I moved into a Condo.

I also had an edger with a Briggs and Stratton engine and the oil turned black after one use. I knew immediately that the Briggs and Stratton engine I had then (don't know about newer ones) was not suitably built for synthetic oil (in the same way those Chevy Caprice and Crown Vic engines used in NYC taxis are not suitable for synthetic oil).

It left crap in my Mustang that Royal Purple had to clean out.

What kind of crap? Under what operating conditions? How many Royal Purple oil changes did it take to clean it out?

I have been driving cars since I was 15 years old (59) years and usd to do all my own oil changes until I got too old .

The big thing with oil and filters is to change the oil and filter regularly and often, regardless of brand.

When I was a poor young lad I used reclaimed motor oil that had been re-refined and the cheapest oil filter I could get.

Now that I can afford to pay someone to do my oil changes ? I take it to a Toyota dealer and they change the oil for me for $20.00 Canadian and change including the filter, but I supply the oil (Mobil1 5W30 yellow cap extended service , $27.00 and change at Walmart for 4-5 quarts.)

In all those years I have never, ever, had an oil related problem with my vehicles.

In my early years before synthetic oil I changed the oil+filter every

2400-3000 miles because MOST of my driving was severe service (city)

Now with the extended service Mobil1 Synthetic,(yellow cap) I change it every 5000 miles .Yellow cap is GAURANTEED FOR 15,000 MILES BY MOBIL.

Since my driving is now about 50-50 NORMAL and severe service(highway and city)

Like I say , I have never , ever ,had an oil related problem with any of my cars over the years.

Most of my cars have gone well over 315,000 klms and then were given to my kids ,and they still ran forever.

The secret is ;change your oil according to your driving conditions.

Mine was a B&S too, Mark.. The engine was ruined in short order.

Wouldnt you guess, Ashton, that the automakers are covering their rears on this? If you tell someone he can run the oil for 15,000 miles, he may do it, and there can be eventual warranty implications. It sounds like a policy decision rather than a technical one.

Lots of manufacturers (foods, for example) put "use by" dates on their products NOT because the products are bad after that time. It relieves extended product quality warranty questions, I guess.