Hi All,
Last year when I bought my 85 GT I did a complete Tune up on her..............7 out of 8 plugs came out with ease............when I got to the last one it was stuck. Now how in the heck do I remove it without busting it. I am really scared this thing will break. If it does break, will it be easily repairable? Please advise.
Thanks
Put some penetrating oil on the threads. Give it a few hours to work in. Use paper towels to absorb the excess and blow it clean. It should come out. The good news is that you have iron heads and its not easy to damage the threads. When replacing them, dont overtighten.
LJH
95GT
And anti-seize is a good idea when installing plugs in cast-iron heads... not just aluminum heads. A thin film ensures you'll never have that problem again
Larry Hepinstall opined in news:0gkbc.13380$vo5.408257@bgtnsc05- news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
What if the plug breaks even with the penetrating oil?
Use a quality penetrating oil. WD-40 is NOT a penetrating oil, BTW. I like PB Blaster. Take a small piece of wire and place one end of it on to of the spark plug where it meets the head. Spray the oil on the wire, and it will run down exactly where you want it. Don't need much, but apply often. Give it time to actually penetrate. Be patient. Use a quality spark plug socket on a long handle without a universal joint. While putting pressure on the handle, moderately tap the handle with a heavy hammer; acts sort of like an impact wrench. The shock loads will often break it loose. I've never broken a plug with this method. But be careful not to round out the plug hex; then you're hosed.
It's interesting, there has been a big firey thread about this in the Nissan group. The guys like Us, (me) say it's a good idea, I said that as far as I can remember hot rodders have used a little as compound to keep plugs from sticking. The "Factory trained Nissan Professional Automotive technicians" insis you should NEVER do such and one guy actually called the manufacturer of one particular brand and parroted his rehearsed speach. I was sure to mention that it is the actions of Professional factory trained techs that cause me to do my own work when I can and even mentioned JD's run in with a "Professional factory tech" who had access to a claw hammer.
Pay the shipping for someone to send you some stock iron 5.0 heads.
Well, there is an anti-seize compound made specifically for spark plugs that you could use. I can understand why people would gripe about any of your garden variety copper/aluminum/whatever based compounds that are made to work their magic on exhaust bolts and stuff like that as well as contain large amounts of grease, but graphite based spark plug anti-seize is much different stuff. There's one manufactured by Champion that generally gets used on airplane engines, seems like that stuff should be just fine. I tend to trust the procedures of aircraft mechanics more than I do auto mechanics... when aircraft mechanics screw up, people die! Seems like a good motivator towards proper procedures to me.
well, shit happen's! LOL, but try this, PB Blaster(wal-mart), warm the engine,spay the plug, let it set for a while, then try to turn the plug, if it moves work it back & forth slowly until it comes out,If you break the threads off in the head you'll have to pull the head to fix it!
Well, a search revealed to me why Champion mkes an anti-seize compound. I don't remember which plugs I used when I change my heads, though it's about time to check them anyway, but they are either NGK or Autolite....
WARNING About CHAMPION Spark Plugs Jun 08 '01
The Bottom Line CHAMPION spark plugs reportedly have an abnormally-high rate of seizing in aluminum engine heads. AVOID using these plugs if your car has an aluminum head.
We just paid $600 to have unnecessary repairs done on one of our cars. Why? Because two spark plugs (two out of four) seized in the engine head, and couldn't be removed (in fact, one broke off trying to remove it). The engine had to be dismantled, and the head sent to a machine shop to have the seized plugs drilled out, and the holes re-tapped.
Why did this happen ? Well, the spark plugs were properly installed and not over-tightened, and anti-seize compound was applied before installation. The plugs installed were CHAMPION CopperPlus (Federal Mogul Corp).
I checked with a number of professional mechanics, and some hot-shot car enthusiasts/hobbyists, and they all said the same thing: "Never, NEVER, EVER install CHAMPION spark plugs in a car with an aluminum head" (these days, that's most passenger cars and many SUVs). The reason is (and apparently has been long-known in the auto community) that there is a design flaw in these plugs. When they got hot in the engine, they expand more than other spark plugs, and "weld" themselves into the threaded spark plug hole. Even with the use of anti-seize compound, I'm told that CHAMPION spark plugs have an abnormally-high rate of seizing (compared to other brands, like Bosch or NKG) in aluminum heads.
So, if you value your car, don't use CHAMPION spark plugs, and don't let anyone put CHAMPIONs in it. If you do, you may be in for some COSTLY engine repairs (we got off lucky; if the head had been slightly more damaged, we would have paid $thousands$ to replace the head.
Too bad Federal Mogul won't acknowledge the problem publicly, and maybe put a warning on the box. Better yet, maybe they should figure out why the problem exists, and fix it. In the mean time - AVOID CHAMPION spark plugs.
Very interesting. I've used Champion's for 30 years and have never had siezing problems with aluminum heads. I don't think I've run into anyone who has either, but your story may have some merit. I'll check with my ASE-cert. neighbor of 40+ years and see what's up with this.
-JD
-------------------------------- Enlightenment for The Masses: http:/207.13.104.8/users/jdadams--------------------------------
In general, whenever trying to loosen "frozen" bolts (at least in cast iron), the following has ALWAYS worked for me: tap the bolt head with a hammer to help loosen whater corrosive bond may exist, then soak with pentrating oil.... wait a while, tpa again, soak some more... if this doesn't do the trick, heat the are around the bolt with a propane torch and tap again... let cool a bit and soak some more... hope you need not repeat this process too many times... but I have removed quite a few very seriously stubborn "frozen" bolts successfully without ever breaking anything or wrecking any threads... (except for once, see below). The key is patience.
Here's my question... my above method works ok with steel, cast iron etc, but what is recommended for aluminum specifically? I once tried to remove a steel bolt from an aluminum case using my above method (before I knew any better), and the bolt finally came out, but took the aluminum threads from the case with it. Perhaps this was a lost cause in any case, those threads may have been "fused" to the bolt and no amount of soaking, tapping etc would have ever helped... but, I started thinking that using heat might not have been a good idea. Keep in mind that the amount of heat applied using a small propane torch is not really that much... just heating the outer surface I don't think could ever create enough heat down along all the threads to actually cause anything to "melt" or "sieze"... or am I wrong? Well... when one encounters a bolt frozen in an aluminum hole, what is the best method for removal? Thanks. In a perfect world, ALL aluminum parts would have threaded steel inserts.
You're grasping the plug by the metal part, the ceramic part is above it. You'll only break it if you tilt the socket and apply stress to the ceramic part.
-Rich
Not at all necessary if anti-sieze is used during assembly and parts are properly torqued (WITH an appropriate torque wrench).
LJH
95GTI dont use Champions anyway... They perform even worse than Bosch single Plats in my Fords.
They do make a good lawn-mower plug
Another page I read the guy aws talking about why and why not to use ASC on plugs, he mentioned NEVER use oil becaue it wil cabonize and leave deposites in the threads. Later hementioned that the thread specs are not as tight on tolerances on Champion and the small space can allow carbon to build up thereby locking the plug in place. Someone auto-anal like you who checks the plug pretty regularly wouldn't have that problem like someone who pokes them in there and forgets about them for 60,000 miles. :-D
So, I thake it you've never cranked down so hard on a plug that was so badly stuck that it breaks where the shoulder meets the threads? I have.
Auto-Anal? Muhahahhaa...an Auto Anal Metrosexual. Yep, that would be me.
You're right: I change those suckers out every 10k. With an anal maintenance schedule (that didn't sound right..) like that, they won't ever get a chance to seize. Hell, I won't even change them if the engine isn't stone-cold, and I even insist on lubing up the inside of the plug wire boots with industrial-grade dielectric grease AND cleaning each plug wire with Simple Green before reinstalling.
Yeah, I know: I should seek help before it's too late.
-JD
-------------------------------- Enlightenment for The Masses: http:/207.13.104.8/users/jdadams--------------------------------
The professionals don't care if you have to pay to have a spark plug hole heli-coiled or the head pulled off. I've been using a little antiseize on all sorts of parts for years with no ill effects. That includes spark plugs. The only time I've ended up cursing my choice is when I didn't have the antiseize compound handy and didn't use it out of laziness.
Use just a tiny bit and get it only on the threads, simple as that. I have 1 tube that I've been using for years... still has alot left.
Anti Siez is as important a part of installing plugs:
As installing the plugs themselves.
Just make sure to use the copper or aluminum based compound, rather than the glass based compound
Nissan is worried about the dilectric qualities of glass anti-sieze compounds, causing the ignition modules to burn out. Which Nissan has had a problem with for years.
Which lead them to the virge of bankruptcy, and now Renault owns 44.5% of Nissan, Which they'll most likely destroy, as they did with AMC, once the BIG 3 US auto makers.
But I also use anti-sieze on lugs when I do brake jobs or an inspection. On exaust clamps, exaust bolts and about everywhere else, and I respect a technician that takes the time to use it!
Just my devaluated $0.02
Refinish King
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