"Michael Johnson, PE" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
I think it makes perfect sense to buy a new vehicle. I bought the truck for a little over that, and I plan to keep it for 10 years. I think I'll have certainly gotten my money's worth from it by then. That's the way it worked out with the LX, same with my wife's MPV (The Shoebox). All paid off, we're driving for the cost of gas, fluids, and the occasional repair. And I know both vehicles' entire history because I'm the original owner.
Sure, two or three year old vehicles can be bought for less, but you get a limited warranty and potential repair bills that may more than make up for any savings from the lower purchase price. You'll also never know what abuse the vehicle suffered, especially with a rental.
Personally, I'd rather get a new vehicle with a complete manufacturer's warranty and no past-owner headaches.
BTW, for those of us with some equity in our homes, the way to go is to take the rebate cash from the dealer (something else you won't get on a used car) and pay cash from your home equity line for the vehicle. It's deductible, the interest rate is around 4.something, and you own the vehicle outright.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
I'll second that. In fact, I think allot of people went for trucks, SUVs, etc. just to get away from FWD. I really love my GT- but the one car that helped me really appreciate RWD was my Dad's 80' Datsun. I forget the model & exact year, but it was a simple, light, tossable little 2dr. 5speed car that had RWD. Tons of fun to drive! Dare I say - a poor man's Beemer?
I am with you on that JD, mechanical things are easier for the average person to diagnose or fix problems than electronics. Although I always thought it would be a good thing to have a car with a crank window on the drivers side and electric on the passengers side.
On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:03:04 GMT, "Ralph Snart" wrote something wonderfully witty:
No conspiracy on my part. I served my country in uniform for a full bit. I've seen no reason to turn my back on her now that I have retired. Everyone should take time out of their busy self-serving lives to do a bit for the greater good. Maybe then their views wouldn't be as skewed.
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Patrick) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:
So how did the whole FWD thing get started? Marketing. Is it _really_ superior to RWD? No. It's just different. Personally, I think it's inferior, but that's an opinon. RWD will cost more initially because it's a whole new platform. Ironically, it's the same phase they'll have to go through when FWD came out.
As for options vs. strippers, the general public as a whole has "upgraded". Today's standard model comes with a 6-speaker CD player, power windows, doors, locks, etc. It's called competition. Why go to manufacturer B when you can buy the same car with more options at the same price from manufacturer A. Simple consumer value.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
My understanding is that FWD had the following advantages.
The transaxle is cheaper to manufacture than the drive train for RWD.
Car could be made lighter.
Smaller car/same interior space because no space needed for drive train.
Better handling than non IRS rwd cars. Bottom line was that a FWD car a much better deal for the manufacturer. Cheaper, more efficient and roomier. Cheers Howard
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:32:41 GMT, "hnelson" wrote something wonderfully witty:
#5. If I remember correctly it takes less energy to pull something then to push something as well. This leads to the ability to use smaller engines which increases milage.
I would agree more with you if I were buying a sports car or if I planned on keeping the car for a very long time (i.e. well past the loan term). We've never had any problems with used vehicles that are 2-3 years old and most times they qualify for an extended warranty to 100k miles for around $750 or less.
Most new car dealers sell decent used cars that have been checked thoroughly. The small used car only places are the ones that can stick you with a POS, IMO. New car dealers don't want the hassles and the dent to their reputation that comes with selling a poor quality used car. Plus you can get the same warranty that you get with a new car. Many times there's less than 36,000 miles on them and the new car warranty is still valid.
That's true but it comes with paying substantially more for the car.
That helps on the interest payments but not on the price of the car itself. There's actually a new type of insurance called "Gap Insurance". It covers the difference between what the insurance company's estimated value of the car is verses the loan amount on the vehicle. Unless a 25%-30% down payment was put on the car at purchase the insurance company probably won't give enough payoff for the car to cover the loan if it is totaled during the first 1-2 years of the loan term. Many people don't find this out until it is too late. Some cars/trucks don't depreciate as fast so this isn't as big a problem but many do and it can leave the owner owing $1,000's on a car they can't drive.
She'll look *really* cool in 5 years when she files for bankruptcy and the pretty little flatbed comes to cart her Malibu away, huh?
Hmmm... I dunno... I still drive a 93 Sonoma, v6, 5 speed that looks crappy but gets me 150 miles a day to work and back quite dependably. Many others I work with do the same. Paid for and loving it...
Sure, I'd *love* a new Dakota extended cab with a Magnum V8 in it, but I have to pay the bills for somewhere to live as well. A $300+ a month payment just doesn't fit in there and a lease is out when you drive
800 miles a week just to work and back.
Young people today have no concept of economics, or for that matter, real life... they just assume there will be a $50k/year job waiting for them because the school's brochure said so. They've got a rude awakening ahead, I'm afraid. Even working for the Big 3 anymore is scary in terms of job security and I don't see them bringing in any more new hires for a long time, and that's *if* the economy ever straightens out. But, with the lack of jobs in the alleged "recovery", it may take years for things to improve.
But if thse kids want to be $50k in debt by age 21... let 'em!
Five years ago, I thought I was set. Then a couple disabilities and a couple layoffs later, all I had got wiped out and I'm on the edge of being "working homeless".
I am 40, work for the Big 3, and my retirement is decimated, I live from paycheck to paycheck, my savings are zilch. I have no boats, snowmobiles, etc., we drive early 90's vehicles and yet I am in defaulted debt up to my ears just to live in a modest 2 bedroom apartment. It's something like having a heart attack and emergency
5-way bypass at age 39 that can wipe out even those who try to be frugal and prepare for life.
You never know just when something is going to happen that will totally pull the rug out from under you. I was doing pretty good until I had the heart attack.
Tell me about it. I have to be medicated to the gills to sleep at night anymore. Wanna talk depression? I just spent 3 weeks in inpatient treatment because the stress had gotten to the point where I couldn't stop thinking suicidal thoughts. And to top matters off, I'm looking at yet another layoff when I go back to work next week. I'm about ready to just pack up some clothes, leave my family and split for a climate warm enough to survive year-around in a tent. I think in the long run, I'd be happier. As it is now, it just seems like I'm working myself into the grave for nothing. My 67 GTO had been sold 3 years ago... Airplane?? Hahaha... I don't think I'd ever own one. I'm doing good if I can just keep the utilities paid on time.
What amazes me is how some of the *rich* react when this kind of shit happens to them. I knew five "rich" people who lost their millions in the dot.bomb scandal and I saw first hand how socially retarded and childish these people actually are. Most had such little "life skills" from being hand-fed for so many years that they totally lost it when their wealth and power was gone. Two committed suicide within 3 months, two others have been committed to mental institutions and only
*one* actually went out and got a blue collar job to support his family.
Here's the suprising part... Even though he lost his big house, cars, boats and money, he says he is actually much happier now and, as he told me one day, "if you had it and lost it, it doesn't really matter because you already *had* it". He also said he feels "more like a real person" now than he did when he had all that money. Oddly, he told me that if he had the chance all over again, he'd stay as he was now. I guess maybe this was someone who struggled with being wealthy and is relieved to not have to deal with it anymore... I dunno. But I suspect that most of the wealthy probably aren't like him on the inside but tend to be more like the other four. I visited one of them a few months back at Ypsilanti and it's truly sad to see such an intelligent person reduced to a total vegetative state just to keep him from hurting himself.
AS for myself... I sometimes think that struggling to survive in the city is just too much stress to be worth it. I think I'd probably be happier to leave all this rat-race crap behind and go live life simple again in the hills somewhere. Is working yourself to death just to live an overpriced life really worth it?
"Ralph Snart" wrote in news:asE7b.410857$uu5.75072@sccrnsc04:
Now it's cheaper because the design's tried and true and the tooling's all there, but when it first came out it was a lot more expensive. I'd bet that the transaxle is more complicated than a regular RWD transmission.
True, but how much is really saved? The weight of a driveshaft?
Only if it's designed that way. My RWD '96 MPV (The Shoebox) has a flat floor with no driveshaft hump. The Shoebox also has tons more room than any of today's SUVs.
Totally subjective, and I'll disagree. Handling has much more to do with suspension design/setup than FWD vs. RWD.
Again, not when they first came out. Everybody had to redesign/retool to manufacture FWD cars.
Huh?!?
Not as much as FWD. When your wheels are spinning, you've not only lost drive traction but you've also lost steering.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '93 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC Gold '96 Mazda MPV (The Shoebox)
"Michael Johnson, PE" wrote in news:g7OdnRVtHN snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
Good points, but I _do_ keep my vehicles for a very long time. At least the ones that don't get totaled out from getting hit... ;)
More good points, but since I keep vehicles for a long time, I'm hesitatnt to buy someone else's car. My first thought is always "Why'd they trade it in if it was so good?" I'd never buy a rental, even with a warranty.
I think it's a good deal, considering what you're getting. Buying a used car costs less, but you get less.
Absolutely. The price you pay is what it is. How you pay for it is what we're talking about.
If you purchase a vehicle with your home equity money, you don't have to worry about gap insurance. If you're going to "finance" a car, the obvious solution is to use your home equity. Guess I should've qualified my last post. ;)
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:05:26 GMT, "Ralph Snart" wrote something wonderfully witty:
Semi-funny story. When GM first came out with their X-Body FWD in
1981 I purchased a Pontiac Phoenix SJ. It really was a beautiful car, fully equipped with every bell & whistle (the wife wanted it). It was the one that they had on display at the SF car show in the Winter of `82.
Anyhow we decided to take a trip to Tahoe for a little gambling & skiing as well as brake-in our new ride. As we got to the pass the State Troopers were out making everyone put chains on their cars. I still had my set from the car I traded in and had thrown in the trunk after the purchase. I tried to explain to the Trooper that I had a FWD car and really didn't need them. He still had me put the stupid things on the car. Guess what set of wheels he insisted on me putting them on?
The trouble is it's still money lost that the insurance company doesn't pay. How did your insurance company treat you when your old RT was totalled? Wasn't it fairly new?
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