Do you know what an EDR is?

EDR is a relatively new acronym.... Event data recorders have been built into restraint contol modules for many years. The equipment to retrieve the data is still quite expensive and there are legal ramifications to the recovery of this data,,,,

However, I refuse to be the cause of an accident if I can possibly avoid it.... However, if I drive like I can cause an accident, I would be worried that the EDR can hang me by the nuts. There is no way, at the dealership l;evel, for us to disable this event recorder.... Even if it were possible, I doubt that I would because of little peckerheads that think street racing or "getting frisky" are part and parcel of vehicle operation.

Life's a bitch... deal with it.

Reply to
Jim Warman
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Not a single sales person knew what an EDR was not to speak of disabling it.

an Event Data Recorder (EDR) is wired into your cars air bag system. In the event of an air bag deployment this litttle solid state spy will record your speed, seat belt usage for all passengers, brake and throttle position and some mfr's record even more parameters.

I am told the 07 Mustang's "little spy" is located under the console. does anyone know how or who might be able to disable it?

These little boxes are in most late models...the data in them is going to be a tort attorney's and insurance co's wet dream.

Norm

Reply to
....

Knock wood. I haven't had a speeding ticket in 29 years. That still doesn't make the little spy any more palatable. Even boring sane drivers such as myself are at risk. This is a way bigger deal than the NSA screening offshore telephone calls by computer for terrorist leaks. And here we have this little frankenstein spying on American citizens creating a little digital records.

Right now, explain how this would deter street racing? It only records the last 20 seconds or so before air bag deployment. So idiots can race all over creation as long as they do not crash there will not be a trace.

There will be ever more increasing parameters recorded. Speed. Average speed. GPS location. Percent of time driving after dark. Miles to work. Etc. Wait till GEICO figures out how to get their hands on this data. Want insurance? Let us download you little black box, then we'll tell you how much

*extra* we are going to charge you....Won't give us the info...? No insurance. No insurance...no financing.

Now suppose they start record> EDR is a relatively new acronym.... Event data recorders have been built

Reply to
....

I wish I could have gotten the information off of my son's 1995 Camaro after he totaled it out. This is not so that I can punish him, is was so that I could prove to those dumbass cops that he wasn't horsing around when he was almost killed by a hit and run driver. The cops in this case just assumed that he was acting out because 1. he was a teenager 2. he was in a red Camaro, 3. he had two girls in the car. I was able to take evidence back to them to show that he was forced off the road and that their police report made no sense at all. In fact, it was impossible for the car to do what he says it would do in the police report. They were still not willing to change the report. I have has other similar experiences. You see, in cases like these, these event recorders expose the truth. The truth, should never be an issue.

Like one of the author opined. If you are driving right and obeying the law, these types of devices are your friend. If you caused an accident, you caused an accident...period. This is an investigative tool not an invasion of privacy, that is why it's limited to 20 seconds. Since it's only recording automobile conditions, presumably on public streets, there is no expectation of privacy.

Reply to
Antique Muscle

Since it's YOUR car you should have the right to have or not have the device. When you are on public streets would you agree that if the gvt wanted to they could make you run around naked because "presumably on public streets, there is no expectation of privacy."

You sound like just another sheep....

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

In Pennsylvania (at least), driving is a privilege, not a right. You may own the car, but you do not have an inherant right to drive it on public roadways.

If you DO drive it on public roadways, you've got a TON of rules and regulations (plus optional common courtesies) that must be followed. If you've ever been a student of modern commuter traffic, you would marvel that it works at all (99.9% of the time).

The first thing that happens in any plane crash, from a 747 to a Cessna, is the opening of the black box, to help in finding out exactly what happened to cause the crash. The hope here is NOT that the crash can be blamed on the pilot, but that the answers will help avoid future crashes in similar circumstances. Now, if the pilot DID screw up, I think we'd all like to know about it.

A similar little black box in my car wouldn't bother me in the slightest. In fact, I welcome it; in the event that there IS an incident, I trust that it would back me up, not point a finger of blame. I'm not worried. Yes, I like to drive somewhat faster than posted speed limits, but how often is that single element the cause of a crash?

But go ahead, disconnect your little black box. If you're all that worried about "government interference in your private life," stay home. Once you take your privately-owned automobile out onto a public roadway, your actions behind the wheel are NOT your private concern, but a public risk. What you do as a driver could well impact MY health and happiness, none of us drives in a vacuum.

And if all of these millions of little black boxes serve to make our roadways in any way safer, I'm all for it.

dwight

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Reply to
dwight

Dwight hit the nail on the head... am I above making mistakes? No, that's part of the human condition..... Bad choices, however, are something I can avoid...

At this point in time, Crash Data Recordings aren't ebing used a lot though I see a growing momentum. Analyzing this data makes accident reconstruiction easier, quicker and (in terms of manpower/hours) more economical....

Bad guys are bad guys... is it so bad that those of us that obey the rules be subject to some minor scrutiny?

Only those with something to hide are afraid of examination....

Reply to
Jim Warman

Driving is a right in every state. Like many rights the courts have ruled that there are legitimate reasons that there may be some controls as long as the basic underlying right remains. I doubt you can find any state where the issuance of a license is at the whim of the state and where a licence can be revoked for no articulated reason. Do you have a right to breathe the air? I'll assume you think you do yet the gvt has put many restrictions on that right including in many locations outlawing your right to exhale cigarette smoke in certain locations. SO does that make breathing a privilege?

You may own

Yes I do.

Commercial use is a different part of the law.

That's great, then get one.

In most cases if you are found to be going faster then the limit it will be prima facie (probably spelled wrong) evidence that you are in the wrong. Yet you are ready to provide evidence against yourself. Strange. Sure, it could back you up, but will it be up to you whether it gets used or not against you? If they extend the recording time to

60 minutes and you have been dicking around and speeding for the first 50 minutes but drove at the limit at the time of the accident how will that look in court when they introduce as evidence you speeding JUST 10 minutes before the accident.

That's a completely separate issue then whether I should be forced to provide a spy that might erroneously suggest I am at fault. No one is saying people aren't responsible for their actions. You are just creating a straw man having nothing to do with the question at hand.

What you

See comment above.

Well, then when are you getting a black box installed that limits your speed to nothing more then 60 mph, after all, that would make our roadways safer.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

For those of us who still believe in the principles the US was founded on (this lets you out), yes, it is so bad to have the gvt subjecting us to MORE scrutiny. Every day there is more and more scrutiny by our more and more oppressive gvt. You people are like the frog in a pot of cold water that's put on the fire. You sit there without noticing that the cold water is getting hot till you wind up cooked. Our freedoms have never been under greater assault then they are at the moment and you and others sit on the sidelines cheering on the assault.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

No you do not. In Louisiana the law specifically states driving is a privilege that may be removed at any time. I know a lot of states laws specifically read that way as well. In an IM someone tells me that Ohio is the same way, specifically called a privilege, not a right.

Reply to
WindsorFox

Reconstructing an MVA can be an inexact science.... A CDR can remove doubt about some of the events...

Here's the information available to those with the equipment to recover the data.... speed, throttle angle (position), brake applied (yes/no) amongst other non-judgemental information. Used to be (before ABS) they could judge your approxiamte speed and brake application by the length of the skid marks you left... Now, since ABS is doing it's best not to leave skid marks, there arises the opportunity that the scene may be "misread".....

If you were facing a vehicular manslaughter or criminal negligence charge, I'm willing to bet you would be more than happy to have this relatively benign information come along and save your ass.... Unless, of course, you have something to hide....

For my part... if I did something wrong and admit to it, there is nothing recorded in my RCM that can make things worse.... If I didn't do something wrong, the data in my RCM can prove that I am telling the truth...

Reply to
Jim Warman

No, it's called a 'social contract'... just like it's your body, I can't just walk over and beat the f**k out of you (as much as I'd like)...I agree to a social contract that says I can't do that if I want to live in this society. If you agree to drive on public roads, you agree to the conduct set down by society, in this case, gov't, acting on behalf of the people. You don't like it, get off the public roads and build your own set of roads where you alone can dictate what is acceptable behaviour. Doesn't mean these things are 'right', just that when you are on public roads you agree to their use if you drive a car that has one. Don't want one, buy a 1967 Mustang.

B
Reply to
BradandBrooks

Dwight, weren't you the guy following a Shelby at 100mph?

The fact that they are only recording 20 seconds and a few parameters now, does not mean that they won't record lots of other things for longer periods of time. I have a solid state box at work that records certain parameters for up to 3 months! Maybe in the future someone will call in your tags as going 100mph on some stretch and the police or GEICO will download all your "flight data" for the last month and issue you a ticket(s) and drop your insurance.

dwight wrote:

Reply to
....

What you all are missing in the "rights" discussion is that "...the people have the right to be secure in their papers and personal effects..."

Data that you created is be> Asht> > > >

Reply to
....

We already have speed traps, both physical and electronic. And any citizen can make a simple call and report a black Mustang doing 100mph. So what?

I know I'm doing 100. If I were all that worried about a little black box ratting me out, I'd stick to the speed limit and probably drive a Civic.

I'm a firm believer in personal responsibility, and if I screw up, everyone "should" know about it.

dwight

(By the way, some concerned citizen dropped a dime when I flicked a cigarette butt out the car window. I got a "stern warning" from the state. I no longer flick my cigarettes out the window. That was some 12 years ago.)

Reply to
dwight

Tsk, tsk.

I would agree with that right. But whether or not it pertains explicitely to a new automobile that is operated on public roadways is best left to first year law students.

The fact is, as has been pointed out elsewhere, that this data is NOT being stored without your consent, nor will be it accessed without your consent. You KNOW it's in new cars, you KNOW what it does, and you KNOW who's likely to look at it. Ergo, ipso facto and thus, when you buy a new car, you KNOW all about it.

If you choose to NOT have such data collected and reviewed, then I have a lovely 1993 GT convertible that you can have for cheap. I guarantee that it has no little black box.

dwight

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Reply to
dwight

This has been an interesting conversation. Many of you understand that the black box constitutes nothing more than a data recorder for events to get to the truth and other see it as in invasion. I think most of you know where I come down on this. I'm in favor of the truth. Sometimes that is good sometimes it's not. It depends on your perspective. I would agree that a device such as a GPS locator built into your car that can track your presence without your knowledge is a clear invasion of your privacy, even if you are driving on public streets. Likewise if it was recording video or audio of conversations and broadcasting that without my consent, that would be a clear violation of my rights.

This box, which gathers driving parameters for use in a post mortum event is not. Why? Because that data is yours, it does not belong to the government. It does not belong to the state, if your insurance pays out a claim, then it becomes the property of the insurance company. Having made that point, no one can have access to that data without due process, i.e. a court order. This oversight is your protectection against unlawful search and seizure. In the case of your insurance company, this becomes a contractural issue between you and the company. If you feel that the information is dangerous to your case, and you attempt to destroy it, you may be guilty of obstruction, since destroying evidence is what constitutes that kind of a charge.

For me, I bought a 1969 Mustang to do my playing in. This way I can do what I want and I don't have the state telling me what I cannot do to it. I don't have to worry that some mfg's gadget is activated and spying on me. I'm not as paranoid as some of the respondants on this, but I do understand both sides of the issue. And if some clown runs a red light and injures a member of my family and that little black box will prove they sped up instead of slowing down, then I will want that information to be available.

Reply to
Antique Muscle

On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 00:38:48 GMT, "Antique Muscle" puked:

But wouldn't it be nice to know where it was? Like if you caused an accident using bad judgement, you could smash it with a hammer to 'reset' it? ;)

-- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

Reply to
lab~rat >:-)

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 08:36:00 -0400, "dwight" puked:

We have the right not to incriminate ourself We have the right to face our accuser (Ok, that one I got from Star Trek)

-- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

Reply to
lab~rat >:-)

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