Rebates & incentives on all but Hemi & SRT8 models pretty much reinforces that. However, it is a very niche marketplace very easily saturated. When we get Hybrids 0-60 times down to sub 6 seconds we might be on to something. :)
Without a doubt Ford caught all of its competitors with their collective panties down. Not for the first time either. What is really different this time around is no other domestic maker has an available stop-gap production model they can throw into the fray like in the sixties until they can come out with their own "clean sheet of paper" version. Look at what happened the first time around with what DC used to be & Ford. By the time the Challenger hit the marketplace the tide had already begun to turn because of federal regulation and fuel prices. Anyone else see a Déjà Vue scenario getting ready to play out?
Yes that is true, lots of people like the idea of driving a German car with a Hemi (in name only) engine assembled in Mexico. They can have at it, I'll pass. If I were going to drive a German companies car, it wouldn't be Daimler Chrysler Mexican powered red headed step child...
Juciy Lucy and her trained Hila-monster?
So is your beef with the fact that the engines are assembled in Mexico, or that Diamler-Chrysler is a German company, or???
The 5.7 and 6.1L "hemi" engines make quite a bit of power and torque, get reasonable mileage (for what they are) and seem reliable.
I've actually been looking at buying an SRT-8 Charger with the 6.1L engine. They're a bit hard to come by (but a walk in the park compared to anything in that power range produced by Ford), but not impossible. The street price is in the low-40's once you've got it optioned up. So yes, that's $15k more than a vanilla Mustang GT. The only stock Mustang that will run with that car is the new GT500 and you can bet your ass that you won't be getting into one of those for anything close to MSRP...which probably makes it $15K MORE than the Charger SRT-8. I haven't seen pricing for the Challenger (or even any convincing evidence that it will even see production) so I used the Charger as a real world, "you can buy one today" example.
Cheers,
Zombywoof wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
A while ago I read somewhere that the Russians (or was it the Chinese?) are going to sell cars here in the U.S. Don't remember any details though..
My $.02..
My "beef' with the Charger is that it looks like something out of a bad Dick Tracy comic book.. Whoever the Design Engineer was, they need to find another line of work.. The Challenger concept car is what the Charger should have been... I do hope it makes it to the production line..
Yep, The top of the line Charger is faster than most.. but how many times you gonna test that? It's all in the matter of what you are looking for in a car.. For me, it is styling, and plenty of power.. The Mustang GT has both.. The Charger is loaded on Power, but is defintely lacking in the style department.. imho..
To each his own.. For me, I will stick with my '06, GT Ragtop..
Tony
Zombywoof wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
True, but other makers have cars that Ford just can't compete against. The 300/Magnum/Charger platform runs rings around the CV, for example. I read that police departments are now trading in their CVs for Hemi- powered Chargers.
Personally, I think that gas will average out somewhere between $3 and $4 per gallon, and after people get used to that, it's SSDD. Lots of Americans will always want bigger, more powerful cars and they'll simply pay for them.
It's also a 4-door sedan (Charger) and not really in the same market segment as the Mustang. And, like everything else, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Every damn day!
It's all in the matter of what you are looking for in
I like the Mustang styling too. It looks fantastic. However, the stock engine just doesn't interest me at all. To get any useful power from the Mustang without modding it yourself, you're looking at a GT500 (which is a beautiful car), but the Ford dealer gouge machine will insure that people pay a hefty premium for the *privilege* of buying one. So the Mustang definitely wins on the styling front. Then there's that pesky issue of occasionally having to haul around kids or other passengers. The extra pair of doors in the Charger is nice. Having a place to put your knees is also very nice. The back seat in the Mustang is not quite as big a joke as in the Beetle, but it's not far behind.
The only thing I'll miss in the Charger (sniff sniff) is the lack of a manual transmission. That's what's kept me glued to my twin turbo A6 for so long...comfy...manual trans...lots of power...(and a bonus of AWD).
Not a bad choice if you like to mod your engine and you don't need to cart passengers around. It certainly looks purty.
Cheers,
Joe,
Going by what we know now there'll be about 9,000 GT500s built. I think that's about on par with previous year Cobras. Is that "limited"? At this point we don't know what DC's marketing strategy will be for the Challenger, if they even build it. But let just say they do green light it. Do you think there'll be a market for more than 9,000 6.1 liter, 425 HP Challengers? (Especially with an LS2 Camaro likely debuting at the same time) Especially knowing that the other SRT LX sedans run about $40Gs?
Me... I'll guess and say the GT500 and 6.1-liter Challenger will likely be apples and apples.
Patrick
They better, seeing they run an extra $15K more. But then know with just a chip and a little weight loss, Hot Rod magazine got a Mustang GT running 108 mph traps -- enough to run with the SRT8.
Hey, I hope DC sells a ton of them!!
But for the average Joe 6-pack in the market for a hot new car, a $40K SRT-8 is likely just a fantasy. So instead he'll end up tossing down his hard-earned green for the cheaper $25K Mustang GT. In this reality, Ford is doing more for the common guy, so should you really be that hard on the Blue Oval?
Mostly, yeah. But I'm sure a few find the extra dollars/and need for a standard $30K hemi four-door.
I'm not going to argue against more horsepower from the factory, but that little 3-valve kicks pretty good, especially for only $25K. And really kicks knowing a few simply mods can it can gallop!
My fear is the Challenger will end up being a 4,000 lb styling exercise. (Do we really want another SSR?) That pillarless top scares me! I say screw trying to make it look exactly like the original. I say instead build it right (nice and light) -- with a nice stiff hard top -- that's focused on performance.
Joe, the Hurricane V8 is coming. The F150's market demands it.
You got my point.
C'mon, Joe, give the Blue Oval guys some credit. Like an athlete, Ford hasn't won them all but their track record shows they've been competitive more often than their Challengers, and have given their arch rival Camaro fits, if not on the test track at least in the showroom.
That's okay. You can criticize anything in that era -- the two-ton Vettes and Firebirds, the wheezing Camaros, or the non-existant Mopar pony cars.
As for almost-produced FWD Mustang, let's focus on the "almost" produced part. As in never produced. Ford listened and then got in right, well mostly. But then Ford has never done the Mustang perfect.
I don't follow.
But anyways, look at what Ford has out there right now. You can pick up a used '93-'01 Cobra. Or a supercharged '03-'04 Teminator. There's the Bullit cars. The '03-'04 Mach 1s. The '05s will soon hit the used car market. And then there's the new Hertz cars that will be available in a few years.
It's a good time to be a Mustang enthusiast!
Patrick
Joe,
I think you and me are the only ones who like the looks of the Charger.
Patrick
I have no idea what you might have read, but I did read that somebody had submitted a Chinese brand, Cherry, for Federal testing.
No more then the first time around. Even though they are production cars, the biggest ballseyist of the bunch, such as the SRT8 options of different sheet metal setups, the ZO6, the GT500 & so forth are still really low # niche models. While the vehicles can be purchased they aren't purchased in anywhere the numbers of their more anemic powered brothers & sisters.
According to one article I read gas prices when normalized out for inflation are actually "cheaper" then they used to be. Wages have risen far faster then gas costs.
What neither you or I can ever predict is what will happen in the Federal legislation arena. Only two more years before the Democrats come roaring back into power with a mighty vengeance. Any new car that might have been in my future in 08/09 will probably be taxed right out from underneath me.
I wouldn't kick it out of the garage for eating crackers.
Different Joe here... but I will say it looks better than the 300. That's damning with *damn* faint praise.
I spend a fair amount of time in China and have been in a few Cherry taxis. No manufacturers (not even the Koreans...well, maybe the Yugoslavs) have anything to worry about from Cherry.
Think Yugo quality with early Hyundai fit/finish/styling....
Yowzers.
I spent quite a bit of time in Korea in their domestic Hyundai's (Taxi's & Rentals) prior to them coming to the states. They had one domestic model that was sort of like an old Acura Legend. They never imported that one, which wasn't to bad.
When I got back to the States in around `89, I went to check what they were importing and was sorely disappointed on the overall fit & finish. There is only so much styling one can do with an econobox. The one I was looking had the interior rearview mirror come off in my hand as I was adjusting it on the lot. I've never looked at another Hyundai again.
Usually Korea kept the lower quality merchandise for their domestic market and exported the higher quality, I guess this wasn't one of those cases.
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote in news:1148091422.470001.186190 @y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
Compared with standard production cars, absolutely. And I seriously doubt that 9000 GT500s will be built. I simply don't believe Ford's hype. They've changed their tune so often that I'm sure they'll change it again.
I think the Challenger will be offered in several stages just like the Charger, Magnum, and Mustang. The base Challenger will compete with the base Mustang, and the 6.1 Challenger will compete with the Mustang GT and the Camaro if it's ever produced.
At this point, I don't see that DC has anything to compete with the GT500 per se. But I don't see that any maker needs to compete with the GT500 as it'll be such a one-off that it'll be a non-issue.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote in news:1148095125.951456.110750 @y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
Charger.
I don't like the Daytona with the flat black hood and the big stripe, but I saw an all-black SRT a couple weeks ago that was just awesome.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
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