Ethanol

I haven't really heard any complaints from stockers. You're the first so far! Ethanol is something I have to steer clear of with my '03 Cobra due to the way I recalibrated the PCM. Corn is not your friend!! hehe

Back when I was in PA, I swore off Sunoco and such for the Ethanol content. It was maybe a penny or two cheaper per gallon but I always got far worse gas mileage on it. I didn't have the pinging problem you have, but it was just noticeably a poor performing (MPG-wise) fuel. BP-Amoco, Mobil, and Exxon, in my neighborhood at least, all ran well.

Here in Westchester County, NY, everything's mixed with Ethanol as we run near California emissions levels (complete with dynos to emissions-test for NOx). I'm not driving my '97 Cobra out here, but my Eclipse definitely suffers in the fuel economy area, at least. I'd blame the fuel on the loss of "pep" but the 160k turbocharged miles isn't helping my cause - these cars aren't known for their longevity.

JS

In IL everything is up to 10% ethanol. I've had no problem with my '97 GT running on it.... now the '73 250I6 really didn't like those early RFG formulations back in ~1995. But that was sorted out years ago.

I'd be surprised if it's the ethanol as much as just cheap gas. Ethanol has higher octane then gas so it shouldn't ping. It does have lower energy content so you get a little less power and some people get allot worse gas mileage but I've never found it to cause pinging in any of my vehicles.

100% ethanol has ~70% of the energy content of gas, so a mixture of 10% ethanol (and 90% gas) should result in a MPG decrease of ~3%; hardly enough to notice. Likewise, the power might be down 3%, and that's equally hard to notice. Further, the pumps typically state "up to 10%", but I understand that the normal mixture is a lot less than 10% for now.

Ethanol is a scam IMHO, because the forced use of ethanol will do very little to reduce dependence on foreign oil and the subsidies are just a transfer of wealth to agribusiness, but the negative effect on car MPG and power is very small at the 10% level.

"Deputy Dog" wrote in news:lLDOh.3853$Rp2.633@trndny04:

Don't touch the stuff myself..

Ethanol is a scam? Poor Bob, do you not realize that 10% of the amount of foreign oil that is used in the US is a very large amount. Using Ethanol makes the price of your gas $2.50 instead of $3 a gallon because countries have to compete with the market. Would you rather the money be spent on foreign countries instead of US farmers? Ethanol is a lot cheaper than foreign oil. And this wealth you talk about, if anyone is making extensive profits off of gas its the gas companies that are recording record profits, not agribusinesses.

Producing ethanol requires a lot of energy use in itself. I think it is a poor path to take for any real improvements in energy production. It depletes top soil, promotes erosion, requires the use of artificial fertilizers etc. Then for all your trouble you get a product that has a much lower specific energy then the substance you are trying to replace. After analyzing the net positives and negatives between producing petroleum and ethanol I wonder if one type of fuel is any better than the other. At least with oil Mother Nature has done all the "shaking and baking" so the net energy gain is probably much higher per gallon.

IMO, the real improvements that will make a marked improvement in domestic energy production from all aspects will be those that produce electricity as an end result. Electricity use in itself is clean and if it is produced with hydro, geothermal, wind, tides, solar etc. it is far and away the most environmentally friendly power source.

Ultimately, I believe fusion will be the final answer to our energy problems. We will crack the secrets to do it on a large scale over time. When that day arrives energy will be abundant, cheap and eventually available to all. Think of all the problems (environmental, social, economic and political) that will be solved when this happens.

Ethanol is slightly cheaper than gas because of the ~50 cents/gallon subsidy given by the US gov't to ethanol producers. Without that subsidy, ethanol would cost the same or slightly more than gas. Someday there may be a commercially viable method to produce ethanol from sawgrass (or something similar) that may result in ethanol that is actually cheaper than gas, but today's corn->ethanol method results in ethanol that is not a bargain v. gas.

it takes more than 50 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of ethanol.

My dad used convenience stores for years for his business fleet and always had problems. We finally convinced him to start using major brands. A lot of the problems went away. Now, many people tell me it's the same gas, just under a different name. I don't know about that. I do know I have less problems when I stay away from convenience store fuel. Maybe it's just their storage tanks. Of course, California forced all the stations to replace their tanks and hazmat the ground where the old tanks sat. Maybe the convenience store tanks are OK now.

I thought the difference was in the additives. (Techron and whatnot)

The main problem with off brand gas is they buy their gas from the major brands and the majors use this as an oppertunity to clean the crude from their storage tanks then the customers find their vehicles run much better on major brands Jim

everyone picks up their gasoline at the same depot and puts their own additives in. It's all the same in pipeline. If the gas is bad at particular stations it's because those particular stations have problems with their tanks etc.

Norman, It takes 4 to 5 gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol. I don't know how you got 50 but that number is WRONG.

He forgot to carry the one....

It depends on if the corn was grown in an irrigated field. ;)