FMX to C4 here it is

Yup, consider it confirmed...........

Bill S.

Jack Napier wrote:

the shop just told me that they couldnt finda flywheel to match the smaller converter and bell housing of the C4. so they suggested puting the FMX belhousing on the C4, getting a bigger converter and using my existing flywheel, they said they looked at 4 diff flywheels and couldnt match it up. and the starter wouldnt even touch the flywheel for a 302 setup(the C4 came from a 302 and ive got a 351W inthe car) so now we're adding another 300 bucks for a different converter. no offense but this is not turning out as easy as posts here made it sound.

to sum up i had a rebuilt C4 from a 69- 302 with an aftermarket converter trying to get it onto a 69- 351W

Bill, does this sound right or are they trying to pad their pockets.?

thanks,

I cannot see why the C4 and bell housing will not bolt up to the

351W...The starter is the same for a FMX and a C4 behind a 289/302/351W, the 157 tooth stamped steel flywheel from Ford is part number M6375-F302 for the small C4 bell housing model , or the 167 tooth M6375G302 for the larger C4 bell housing model. Which one do you have????? Both of these items can be cross referenced to what ever local parts store your using. As for the torque converter, this I am not sure of, best you call a local Ford dealer, or transmission shop once you figure out which C4 bell housing configuration you have on your hands. Personally, if the shop has no clue, your better off getting your car out of there as soon as possible. Most shops would have made the calls already, and figured things out, instead of coming back to you and making themselves look incompetent......................

Bill S.

Jack Napier wrote:

a fmx bell won't bolt to a c4 ,there are only 2 choices on the flywheel.

1. 164 tooth (big c4) 28 oz balance

1. 157 tooth (small c4) 28 oz balance.

both require the matching bellhousing, they should be available at any parts store.

sounds like you may have mismatch,possibly the big bellhousing(164) and the small convertor(157)the bolt patterns on the convertors are

11-7/16 on the big one(164) and 10-1/2 on the small one(157). there is also 2 styles of bellhousings on c4's,on one type the bell meets the trans at a sharp angle(looks almost like a manual bell) and the other style bell meets the trans in one continuous arc(looks almost like it's part of the trans).it may be possible to redrill the proper flywheel so your convertor will bolt up to it. The big & small bells will interchange without modification also. Which bell/trans do you have?

You can get the flywheel (flexplate) from Advanced Auto Parts for about $45.00! They won't have it in stock, but can get it overnite, in most areas. You can get for about $70.00 from Mustangs Unlimited and others...

If this shop can't figure it out, take the car to somebody who knows what a C-4 looks like, because this place doesn't deserve your business. This swap is just too easy.

i didnt know there were 2 diff C4s, im gonna take all this info down there and check the numbers

will let you guys know what happens

OK, i misunderstood what they were telling me. I have the small C4 and the smaller converter wont fit my flywheel which is the bigger one, when he said bigger bell i just assumed he ment using the FMX bell, he was saying they have a bigger C4 bell on hand and will use that, so needing a bigger converter makes sense now. but they did say they tried 4 different flywheels, which is still a grey area for me that im not an expert on. but if my motor has the big flywheel then a smaller one wont reach the starter and so ill need a bigger converter to match. The bell is no longer a suspicious issue.

next issue, i want to confirm what i have for a small converter, its never been used been in my garage for 3 years. there are no stamped numbers, just painted on numbers that have been repainted over(can still make them out tho). whats the easiest way to find out what it is? im going to start looking right now, but will probly need to know where to look. it was either made by a co. called dragon or the model is called dragon, dont know which.

thanks,

actually there are 5 or more smallblock c4's

1. the original c4 in 64 to 69
2. 70 up big bell case fill
3. 70 up small bell case fill
4. trucks & cars pan fill
5. 75-78 V8 mustang II

theres probably a few more! Have you driven(to find a Ford part) lately? LOL

here's a link that has some good c4 pics and information.

use the small bell,small flywheel then use your convertor if the bolt pattern on the torque convertor is 10-1/2", or use the big bell,big flywheel and your convertor if the convertor has a bolt pattern of

11-7/16",you'll also need the proper block/starter plate for each combo,check ebay for the plates.

"winze" wrote in a message:

Basically, there is actually 3 different small block C4's:

1. Early C4 case fill
2. Late C4 case fill
3. Late C4 pan fill (mainly used in trucks, but some made their way into some cars)

The difference between the early and late case fill C4 is the type of pump used. Do you know the difference Winze? The C4 in my Pinto race car is an early C4 with late model internals. One simple modification was needed to be done for the upgrade to work, only because of the differences in the front pump. What was the modification? Anyway, to tell the difference in bell housings, if you look at the back of the bell housing, if the ribs go from the top to the bottom, you have a 157 tooth bell. If they only go part way down (several inches), you have a 164 tooth bell. The Mustang II & Pinto's used the same C4 tranny, but with a smaller bell housing with a 143 tooth flex plate. They didn't use a different tranny. They later used the C5 tranny which used a lock up converter.

my Pinto race car ....

Is it a bracket car or roundie round?

MadDAWG

"MadDAWG" wrote in a message:

Bracket car. Right now I have a stock 84 302 in it, and this past weekend it ran a 13.21. We still have some more tweaking to do to the suspension. Over the winter, we're going to make a few changes that should get us down in the low 12's maybe high 11's next year.

You guys should see the video of this little monster launching. It sure doesn't look (or sound) like a 12-13 second car...it's got BIG potential. I have seen a few other "race-ready" Pinto's & Mavericks .....I love the look of those cars when they are built up.

Here is my buddy Bob Smith's Super-Pro Pinto

My friend's Maverick (Len-Owner of Lentech Auto) both run mid 9's "all motor" in the 1/4. I think you're on the right track with the Pinto. It's a unique car to race and it's also a crowd pleaser....Bob's Pinto always attracts a small crowd.

-- Buzz Haze-Ottawa ON

87 5.0 LX Coupe

"Buzz Haze" wrote in a message:

Thanks Buzz for the kind words. Yea, it attracts quite a few people when I have it to the track. Allot of people can't believe there are Pintos still around. I chose it for it's size & weight, and for its potential. The last time I had it to the track, I had quite a few Ford racers stop by to check out my custom water pump delete setup, and one asked us to make them one. For those who want to see the video that Buzz seen, can go to

But be prepared, it's a prettybig file. Your best bet is to right click on the link and select "SaveTarget As" and download it to your computer, then view it. Now I can't waitto get it to the body shop to get it painted!

Tell me that dosen't have a Chevy motor in it! (See sticker on hood scoop in

3rd pic).

MadDAWG

Same here. I have been looking at Pintos, Mustang II, and Mavericks myself. Just gotta sell my car first which now means a new tranny since it just crapped out drive. Maybe Buzz could get me a good deal on a new from the guy with the Maverick lol

MadDAWG

Great work on the video.

What is the weight on your Pinto? One of the reasons I have been looking at the "little" cars is I have a GMC Sonoma (dad works for GM so the discount was to much to pass up) and I'd like to keep the towing weight to around

4000 lbs for car and trailer. How buitl up is the 302? I have a 342 short block and would put a C4 behind it as well. What stall and gear are you running? I'd think with the part I have avaible to me I should be in the mid to low 12s once its all sorted out.

thanks MadDAWG