God Help Toyota

From the commercials I've seen it's the same basic market, youth.

There lies the answer as to

It doesn't matter what they "intended", what maters is what they looked like. They were all ugly. And what's your basis for claiming they intended them to be ugly? I rather doubt any of them "intended" for them to be perceived as ugly. I would love to see someone with money do a test where they get some people who don't know what the brand names are of the vehicles being tested and put Toyota nameplates all over some Chevy, and put Chevy Nameplates all over some Toyota (both vehicles of similar size and design) and then ask them to rate them on looks, "fun to drive", quality, etc and see what the results are. Then get a second group, switch the name plates, and ask the second group to rate them. I bet the results would be eye opening.

They have been making avalanches for what, ten years? So that may be why there are more of them to be seen.

The Aztec was marketed as a family SUV type vehicle. Its target market was not young. The Scion brand is Toyota's successful attempt at garnering the youth market which is why that "box" had a Scion name plate on it. The Element and XB were priced in the mid teens and the Aztec was much higher with many optioned available.

The XB and Element were designed to be "cute" (i.e. ugly with personality) and were conceived as a modern day VW bus. They are "cute" in the same way a bulldog is "cute". Comparing the Aztec, XB and Element is a prime example of how the Japanese are kicking the Big Three's asses when it comes to product development and marketing.

Ashton Crusher wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

All of the aforementioned vehicles are pretty damn ugly IMO, but more people will buy an "ugly" Toyota or Honda than an "ugly" Pontiac. That said, I have to admit that Toyota's and Honda's "ugly" vehicles are a bit more palatable than Pontiac's. The Ridgeline only looks mostly bad, whereas the Aztec looks totally bad.

I can't think of any car that looked like the '65 Corvair, but the Corvair was one of the best styled cars of its time IMO. It still looks good even today.

Ashton Crusher wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I think it depends where you are. There aren't that many Avalanches running around here.

At least Toyota named it appropriately...

...you have to be blind as A-BAT to like it.

Davïd Greenville, NC

My memory is shaky but I thought I once read that some Italian Design studio had a hand in it. Of course not everyone will agree, but I agree with you, it was a timeless design like the Studebaker Avanti and the 911.

I only recall one commercial for it but it was not aimed at a family. It showed a young couple folding out the camping option for the back hatch and camping at the beach.

Its target market

I suspect the Aztec designers had the same intent, Cute, in an ugly sort of way. I still think if the same vehicle had come out as a Toyota it would have been received quite differently as far as styling commentary.

I can't remember the commercials because all I could think of was how damn ugly the vehicle was. A friend bought one and it was as ugly in person as it was in the ads. The MSPR for it was in the $21k-$26k which is substantially above the XB and Element. A loaded Aztec could get above $30k. Who knows what prices Pontiac dealers had to stoop to in order to unload them. If Pontiac was targeting the Aztec to the youth market then someone should execute their marketing department for selling an entry level vehicle in the mid $25k range. In that price range they are really targeting the late 20s and up age range, IMO.

It might have been received better had the Aztec been a Toyota but then Toyota would have done things differently than GM/Pontiac. Toyota doesn't bring a new car to market unless they know exactly what age group will buy it and it is priced accordingly. They don't have a "build it and they will come" mentality like the Big Three.

The Big Three didn't earn their reputation overnight and without merit. They are fighting an uphill battle with the Japanese and will have to earn the respect of the American auto buyer again through offering good products at a good price and using excellent marketing techniques. Their short sighted vision may spell their end. While Toyota kept their eye on the ball Ford and GM threw too many of their eggs into the SUV basket. Now gas prices are high and they can't give their cars away and SUV sales are sinking. Toyota didn't make this mistake and are reaping the rewards right now.

I thought this was a mustang forum?

If it was a Mustang only forum we wouldn't have half the posts. There would be tumbleweeds blowing across your screen most days. The is a social club for people that own, have owned and/or like Mustangs. Much of what is posted here is OT.

The 1961 VW Karmann Ghia looks very similar to the Corvair of that same era. '61 VW:

'61 Corvair:

180 Out

That's what happens when you think before installing new batteries first.

The three or four of us who used to watch the Jessica Alba TV series "Dark Angel" -- a kind of post-apocalyptic sci-fi show set in the not too distant future -- will remember the many flat-black, thinly disguised Azteks.

Like cockroaches, I guess, the creators must have seen the Aztec as one plague of mankind most likely to survive a nuclear holocaust.

180 Out

'61 Corvair:

Looking at the Corvair I see much more of a resemblance to the current era BMWs, but for everything I don't remember the VW having the Chrysleresque fin looking front end. The only ones I remember is the somewhat Studebaker looking ones

Okay this is just wrong on so many different levels...

Mmmmmmmmm .......... Jessica Alba.

..... or they could pick them up dirt cheap, spray a couple of cans of Krylon flat black paint and crash them at will. God, those things were ugly.

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@i3g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

The Corvair in that pic is a first-gen. Not a pretty sight, like that fugly Ghia. The second-gen cars were fabulous. Witness:

While we're at it, check this out: Also not evident is the fact that the second-gen cars came with what amounted to a Corvette independent rear end.

Yeah but you are comparing a 4-door. Look at a first gen coupe

The second-gen cars were fabulous. Witness:

I had a 66 monza corvair back in 69 and I liked it except for the heater