Greedy Bastards.....

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:17:48 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote something wonderfully witty:

Exactly what the hell is your point? Should Ford be forced to make as many GT500's as they can with no regard to how many they may or may not sell at what price point? Should the dealers be forced to sell them at MSRP regardless of how much a customer offers for one?

I really want to know what your point is. You seem to have wandered all over the page on this issue without one single person agreeing with you.

You want to be the next Ford CEO?

Never said they weren't. You folks sure like dragging in tangents and justifications. None of these tangents or justifications change the artifical scarcity into an ideal free market.

Now explain to me how the aliens control George Bush?

It seems you all now understand my point, know it's true but are pulling anything and everything you can out of your asses to hope to 'win'. Problem I agree ford is free to do so, I agree we can all choose something else, etc etc and so forth. But the fact remains, this isn't a free market model when retailers are not competing with each other.

I've stated it several times, but if you want to play dumb, simply put that the current prices are not the result of the ideal free market as some tried to portray it. Seems everyone grasps that now but has to make idiotic strawmen like below:

You are the ones wandering all over the page searching for tangents and irrelevancies and constructing strawmen like the above to avoid the simple fact that the 'free market' excuse doesn't hold because the retailers are not competing with each other due to the allotment scheme.

I couldn't do worse than the last guy.

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 21:47:09 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote something wonderfully witty:

Or we pretend you know what you are talking about.

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 23:55:57 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote something wonderfully witty:

How so? There is like a bizzalion of them out there. The ability to generate profits by having a staff trained to service them is obvious. I suspect that anyone who brings a GT500 into Bubba's Ford is going to find that certain parts are not in stock and need to be ordered. Additionally your average Billy Bob mechanic may not ever work on one in his entire career.

And you don't generate additional profit for yourself? Do you work for minimum wage? So you have an objection, who knows what the basis is because you don't even know what a "Free Market" truly is anyway. No one has yet to weigh in on this discussion agreeing with you. Is your entire life like this?

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 22:35:33 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote something wonderfully witty:

Without a doubt. Even at MSRP, right now I could neither afford to purchase or insure a GT500. I certainly wouldn't dispose of a free one, but procuring one is out of the question in my current economic status. I suspect that is the case for a large majority of people. It is probably one of the reasons that Ford decided to go with limited production. They know how many top of the line Mustang GT's they sell. They knew how many Cobra's were selling each year, with discounts needing to be offered towards the end of the model year. Numbers were crunched, marketing models run and a plan created. Perhaps not the worlds greatest plan, but a plan nonetheless. For the dealers a plan that allowed all of them to get in on the gravy train as opposed to the old SVT model. If I was an SVT dealer I would be pissed, if I wasn't I would be happy with my two GT500's.

Ahhh DeBeers.

Miami must have a helluva a CSI budget.

Seeing as how he hasn't gotten one person to agree with him it is easy to see how.

I think most like me could even afford MSRP and are just wishful thinking. Everybody knew these vehicles were going to demand a premium when they first came out. Look at the GTO. Major premium when they first hit the street, then they couldn't give them away. While that isn't going to happen with the GT500 right now, prices will stabilize, but not during the first run. If demand stays high maybe Ford will increase production if the margins are enough on their side of the pricing model.

Best buy sells a the X400 TV for $400, Circuit city has it for $4500

Who do you buy from?

Now imagine that Best Buy had a manufacturer's allotment of 3 X400 tvs, and Circuit City had an allotment of 600. Best Buy sold out, who do you buy from?

Beinging to grasp how allotments are about creating an artifical scaricity? Not an ideal free market situation by any means.

Corporations in general do not like free markets. They like markets slanted in their favor. Just because they successfully manipulate a market doesn't mean it remains 'free'.

irrelevant to my point....

Irrelevant to my point and increasingly insulting to cover up the fact you don't get it.

A free market means that retailers compete with each other. Allotments short circuit that. It's a simple concept that doesn't need people chiming in. Why I haven't left you to your ignorance myself is a bit of a mystery even to me.

Does a fixed allotment create scaricty? Yes or no.

No tangents zombie. Just answer yes or no.

If you want to agree with your previous posts, your answer will agree with me as it does with practically everyone else.

"A free market is a market where price is determined by unregulated supply and demand"

Allotments control supply.

"The law of supply and demand predominates in the ideal free market, influencing prices toward an equilibrium that balances the demands for the products against the supplies. At these equilibrium prices, the market distributes the products to the purchasers according to each purchaser's use (or utility) for each product and within the relative limits of each buyer's purchasing power."

Allotments do not distriubte the products to the purchasers in that manner.

Just because ford is making the allotments to the retailers rather than the government doesn't change the fact it deviates from the ideal free market when it comes to retailers competing with each other for sales.

You can argue all you want about how the car is special, how ford is allowed to do it, how ford should do it to reward dealers and all your other justifications and reasons to accept the allotment scheme, but it's irrelevant, because in the end, allotments short-circuit the ideal free market.

Brent is trying to apply the function of a general free market to a specific participant in a free market. Ford is free to operate as they see fit, within the law, and can allot, ration or otherwise control distribution of their products among the dealer network as they see fit. They are in competition with GM, Toyota, Mercedes, DC etc. in the overall free market across their product line and this includes the GT500. He thinks, internally, Ford should also operate as a microcosm of the larger free market and by the same rules. He doesn't understand that no manufacturer operates this way because they have differing marketing strategies for their products. It is this or he is just one of those people that will never reverse themselves on a stated opinion even when they know they're wrong.

Of course they are... but ford dealer to ford dealer pricing, the subject of this thread, not ford versus the world, is not following free market principles as some claimed. I only pointed that out.

Never said they 'should' do anything in this thread. See this is the disconnect. I write A you read B. I stated that dealer pricing is not being driven by the ideal free market as claimed. Having been unable to show me wrong in that, you and others have decided to insert all kinds of tangents and strawmen like the above.

I feel ford is not maximizing their profit by doing allotments, but that is the closest I got to should or should not. Maybe they want to 'reward' dealers at their own expense. Who knows. You might want to stop building strawmen by putting words in my mouth.

I fully understand that many manufacturers have various plans, schemes, etc. Your insulting claim that I don't is yet just another irrelevant tangent.

You just agreed with me that ideal free market principles are not in play between independently owned ford dealerships when it comes to the GT500 because of allotments creating an artificial scarcity.

What it comes down to, is the above statement of yours is part of this giant face saving excerise where you and others have introduced one irrelevant after the next rather than just state openly that claim that ford dealership pricing one compared to the other, was like the ideal free market, wasn't correct.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 11:29:12 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote something wonderfully witty:

But you aren't anywhere near close to what the definition of what a "Free Market" is in either a demand or command economy so what is your point?

If you don't understand it by now, you're a hopeless moron.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:12:46 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote something wonderfully witty:

Either I don't buy, or I wait for Best Buy to get some more. Fairly simple decision. What is your point?

Nope, it happens all of the time depending on sales volume. Chevy has been doing it for years with the Corvette. Harley with their entire model line. The bigger the retailer the more units they get from the end manufacturer. This current model is not unheard of in the marketing of limited model vehicles and has been done by most major manufacturers for limited run vehicles.

Of course they do. We are a demand economy as well as a capitalistic one. Make as much as you can as fast as you can. If you are taking advantage of the consumer another supplier will step in with either a better or cheaper product. or in the case of truly low supply, and alternative product. This will happen when GM & Chrysler bring their Pony Cars back into the Marketplace.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:18:48 -0500, "Michael Johnson, PE" wrote something wonderfully witty:

I understand all of that, and even get that he is even using the wrong term to apply his thesis on the subject. In a Demand & Capitalistic economy Ford is 100% free to do whatever they want in the marketing of their vehicles. They are trying to capitalize on a pent up demand on one specialized vehicle with limited access in a hope of creating more sales opportunities throughout the brand, nothing new. I suspect many of the dealers with GT500 in inventories have priced then at a point where they will sell them, but are more interested in keeping them on the floor as a sales draw to get people into the showroom in an effort to down sell them into a GT or base model. Which ever has the higher price margin for them.

It is all a game and has absolutely nothing to do with the restrictions on free trade. I think he's just pissed he can't afford one.

The same one you're too dense to grasp. The lack of free market competition between retailers of GT500s.

happens all the time != ideal free market.

True, what's your point?

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:19:55 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote something wonderfully witty:

No, unless you are talking about a fixed allotment of cars in general created by the government. i.e. only one new car per family every ten years, you used your new car allotment eight years ago and now you want to buy a new GT500 and can't for all the money in the world.

I hereby allot you 1 troll doll per month. I'm sitting on a million of the bastards, but I'm only going to allot you one a month. Exactly what are they worth if nobody is buying? Scarcity has absolutely nothing to do with demand. Without demand there is no scarcity regardless of the supply.

Nobody in the world can force me to give you more Troll Dolls because I am the sole source of them. You can get something that looks like a Troll Doll, even performance like a Troll Doll, but not a genuine ZombyWoof Troll Doll.

No

What term would you like? Clearly as I read the initial posts it was about pricing from one ford dealership to another.

No one has stated otherwise.

Who said anything about restrictions? Not me. Another irrelevant tangent.

I think you have to be insulting in a face saving effort. But if you must know, I could pay the inflated price in cash.