He's lost his flippin mind! (A treat for the RAMFM old-school crowd)

I'm not even going to try to soften the blow. Those of you who know me know how rabid I've been about Flowmaster mufflers being the epitome of suckdom.

Well... I ordered a pair of 40's and am about to insert them into my Magnaflow catback.

/me ducks and runs

No, seriously. I am taking a chance on the new stainless steel Delta Flow versions and hoping against hope that they resolve the two critical factors that contributed to my tenure as an Anti-Flowmaster Nazi. Rust and Drone.

I have found myself wanting the old-school "Signature Sound" for my car again now that it seems everyone and their mother is running around with straight-flow mufflers on their Mustangs. The sound that I love from Bassani, Magnaflow, Dynomax Ultra-Flo and other such cans has become the norm rather than the exception, and I find my ears perking up anymore at the distant rumble of a Mustang sporting Flowmasters.

So I'm going to give it another shot. I'm going to clamp the new Delta Flows into the car tonight and see how I like it. I've already ridden in a Vette with these mufflers installed and it gave hardly any drone inside the car. If it's that way on the GT, I may find myself extolling the virtues of their new *stainless steel* variant just as strongly as I used to promote the Bassani / Magnaflow stuff.

Stay tuned... more later! O_o

Reply to
Tungsten
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It will be interesting to hear how they perform. Also, what's the cost hit on these compared to bassani?

Reply to
Brent P

Tungsten wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

already

LOL! Hey, Flows are good. The ones on the LX have been great for years; the one on the R/T sounds awesome.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Reply to
Joe

Ohhh I remember the days ............ Next thing your going to tell us your putting a sunroof in ??? :-) Now THERE'S a classic discussion

TIM -aka- MUSTTANGUY "at" AOL "dot" COM

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Reply to
Musttanguy

Or maybe he will find a new use for the "Moose Nuts".

Don Manning

Reply to
2.3Sleeper

$84 per muffler compared to whatever Bassani charges now.

Reply to
Tungsten

Um... well... NO!!!!

Reply to
Tungsten

My follow-up...

A buddy of mine and I worked on the car til about 10:30 last night after bleeding the brakes in his newly restored 1965 Fastback. Oh what a sweet car that is. 351 bored and stroked to 393, Tremec T-56 six speed, blue with white LeMans stripes... tasty!!!

But I digress.

We got the Magnaflow stuff off of my car w/o too much trouble and then started the process of fitting the Magnaflow plumbing onto the Flowmaster mufflers. That didn't go so well. It became pretty obvious real quick that I needed to just put all of the exhaust components in the trunk and let the local muffler shop do their magic with a pipe expander.

So I drove the 98GT home with just the Bassani catted X-pipe and nothing else behind it. At 10:30 at night. Through a lot of residential areas. I am surprised I got home without getting a ticket.

...

Fast forward to this morning: I was one of the first folks at the muffler shop and they quickly got the car up on the lift for me. It took a little widening of the Flowmaster mufflers' inlet and outlet tubes, and a little shortening of the Magnaflow's intermediate flow pipes, but they got the Flows welded in and ready to go.

The car sounds *INCREDIBLE* now. It's a little more subdued than the old regular 40-series mufflers, but still has that rumble and growl that makes them unmistakable for anything else.

Inside the car, they are actually *QUIETER* than the Magnaflows and have *ZERO* drone. None. Zip. Zilch! Not an ounce!

I am very happy with the decision to give the new Delta Flows a chance. Only time will tell if they hold up as well as a stainless muffler should, but I do not anticipate any problems out of them.

Reply to
Tungsten

---- snip ---- Traitor!!!!

OK, I take it back.

The O/R X and chambered muffler combo seemed to be the one that drove everyone really nutso. I've heard it and I didn't like it either. I'm glad you like the sound with catted X but I think it will be interesting to hear your opinion in about a month or so after the newness has worn off. Post some soundclips?

btw - The coil packs and wirelooms made it here no prob.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Tom

1998 GT Coupe 5-spd. Bright Atlantic Blue K&N FIPK, Tri-Ax, 3.73's, FRPP Coated Shorties, SpeedCal, P&P 2K Heads, 2K Intake, Bassani X-Pipe and Cat-Back, Subframe Connectors, JMS Chip, Eagle Alloy Wheels
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Reply to
bluestang98
** I'm not even going to try to soften the blow. Those of you who know ** me know how rabid I've been about Flowmaster mufflers being the ** epitome of suckdom.

Eh, don't sweat it. I've extolled the virtues of the Steeda Tri-Ax shifter forever, only to rip the damned thing out last year after I'd finally been sickened enough on the noise. A very pleasant Canadian bought it from me. eBay is a great place to wash oneself of all their financial sins, much like Lourdes does for humpbacks and cripples, and I for one feel much cleaner for the experience.

I have also recommended installing a set of high flow cats and stock mufflers to get great sound. The only problem is that you barely pass CA smog testing if you do it. So much for THAT shit.

Lessee. Hmmm. FMS 5300-C springs beat you bloody on city streets; removing the MAF screen causes electrical 'turbulence' that screws up mileage and performance and installing one of those nice rear differential girdles also results in a huge dent in the spare tire well after you hit one tiny pothole. Who knew it wouldn't fit a Mustang? No one tells the mark about these things.

The only mods I've done that were 'worth shit' were the SFC's, STB, 4-pt. K-frame brace, sequential tail light modules (thanks, Tim) and of course, the M-5400-A Bullitt suspension with all the trimmings. I also think that Bullitt grey spoked wheels were worth the bucks, but technically, I don't consider wheel changes as serious modding. Same goes for the aluminum driveshaft.

Have at it. Let me know how it turns out. And quit worrying about making a mistake. You'll never make more than I have. EVER.

-JD

-------------------------------- Enlightenment for The Masses: http:/207.13.104.8/users/jdadams--------------------------------

Reply to
JD Adams

JD,

I'm curious about what you replaced the Tri-Ax shifter with. I run a Pro 5.0 and while I get noise I purposely have the stop bolts set that way to make sure I don't bend the shift forks. I've never tried to adjust all the noise out.

Interesting. Anyone else have problems passing smog tests with aftermarket cats?

Are these springs specific rate or progressive rate? I HIGHLY recommend progressive rate springs and to ALWAYS replace the rubber spring isolators during the install.

That one I wouldn't try. We all make mistakes, but I would think the screen is in there for a reason.

huge dent in the spare tire well after you hit one tiny pothole.

That's wild. Before or after you put in the lowering springs?

Bracing and using factory parts is always a good idea.

My worst. A ram air kit. What a total waste of money! With a R/A kit it's like your car is vacuuming the road surface... you'll have more shit in your air box/air filter that you can believe. I sold it to a guy I knew for less than half of what I paid for it. I told him it was junk, but he wouldn't listen and insisted on paying something for it. Within two months he had taken it off his car and had throw it away. I tried to tell him...

Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD

Reply to
Patrick

---- snip ----

I've also heard this but it hasn't happened to me yet. I installed a Trick Flow rear diff cover about 3 months ago and haven't experienced any issues with it at all. What brand did you have the problem with?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Tom

1998 GT Coupe 5-spd. Bright Atlantic Blue K&N FIPK, Tri-Ax, 3.73's, FRPP Coated Shorties, SpeedCal, P&P 2K Heads, 2K Intake, Bassani X-Pipe and Cat-Back, Subframe Connectors, JMS Chip, Eagle Alloy Wheels
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Reply to
bluestang98

So far the Flows are doing really well on the car. No drone and I doubt that will change since there is no packing inside to loosen up and change the sound over time.

That's what happened to my Magnaflows I am afraid -- they started out about as drone free as the Bassani mufflers but eventually developed a really bad drone and "pitchy" tone at higher RPM.

Our local message board (Tennesspeed.net) had our annual track day at the Beech Bend Raceway dragstrip in Bowling Green, KY this past weekend. I was able to make a half dozen or so passes with the car in between checking cars in at the tech shed, mingling to meet and greet, etc.

The Slowstang did okay and the Flows really sounded good at WOT. ;-)

It's definitely a low 14 second car with a lighter and more skilled driver behind the wheel. Not bad considering that the 1998 non-PI heads are back on it's still hampered by the automatic transmission and stock torque converter.

We're throwing a set of 4.10 gears under it within the next month or two and a 3200rpm lockup converter. Hopefully that will tide me over until I decide what I want to do about the lack of power under the hood.

Thinking 2001 engine swap with forged pistons, forged crank and custom ground cams. Perfect foundation for a little boost down the road.

Reply to
Tungsten
** JD, ** ** I'm curious about what you replaced the Tri-Ax shifter with. I run a ** Pro 5.0 and while I get noise I purposely have the stop bolts set that ** way to make sure I don't bend the shift forks. I've never tried to ** adjust all the noise out.

I went with a stock unit out of a '99. According to the parts guy, some subtle changes were made to the design that year, and I'm pretty happy with it. The Tri-Ax's noise drove me nuckin' futs; the stops were adjusted to .005" beyond the fork limit; I tried installing rubber parts to quiet things down, to no avail. The noise just got to the point where it was like nails on a chalkboard, so out it came. Fork damage isn't a problem for me (I shift with fingertips and don't manhandle it) and I don't race it or anything, so to me, it was a solution in search of a problem. Sold it for $170 plus shipping, so I'm not unhappy about the whole thing.

** Interesting. Anyone else have problems passing smog tests with ** aftermarket cats?

I passed a while back, but was borderline. Here in CA, the limits are really tight, and unless everything is in perfect tune, it won't even come close. They put it on a dyno and test it at 15 and 25 mph with the a load on the rollers.

** > Lessee. Hmmm. FMS 5300-C springs beat you bloody on city streets; ** ** Are these springs specific rate or progressive rate? I HIGHLY ** recommend progressive rate springs and to ALWAYS replace the rubber ** spring isolators during the install.

They are linear, 650 front, 275 rear. Linear springs handle better, but can offer a much harsher ride. The Bullitt setup uses linears as well, but the matched shocks/struts/swaybars eliminate all of the harshness, giving you a very civilized ride and outstanding handling.

I found that poly isolators increased NVH. (noise/vibration/harshness) They also tended to raise the ride height 1/2" above that of rubber isolators.

** > and installing one of those nice rear differential girdles also results in a > huge dent in the spare tire well after you hit one tiny pothole. ** ** That's wild. Before or after you put in the lowering springs?

After. It looked okay when I installed it, but space is very tight back there, and when you hit a bump at speed with a lowered suspension, the girdle smashes into the spare tire well, making a big-ass dent in it.

** Bracing and using factory parts is always a good idea.

This is true. The bracing was the best thing I've ever done. Immediate results, low cost, and everything else builds on it. Too bad it doesn't raise the resale value or lower insurance costs.

** My worst. A ram air kit. What a total waste of money! With a R/A ** kit it's like your car is vacuuming the road surface... you'll have ** more shit in your air box/air filter that you can believe. I sold it ** to a guy I knew for less than half of what I paid for it. I told him ** it was junk, but he wouldn't listen and insisted on paying something ** for it. Within two months he had taken it off his car and had throw ** it away. I tried to tell him...

Yeah, it's funny how many of these things are sold, even though the buyer knows about the bad product reputation.

Hell, I even reinstalled the original air intake snorkel. I found that it was quieter over the 'bobbed' version (of course), but more importantly, low-end torque seemed much stronger. Check the dyno figures on these newer cold-air kits; they show a slight HP increase on the top end, but compare the numbers on the low end, and you'll find a tremendous decrease in torque and HP below

3,000 rpm.

Same goes for 'racing intake manifolds' with short runners. You can't get something for nothing, I guess. I suspect that the shape of the original snorkel was designed to shape the airflow direction in such a way that the MAF tube would be hit just right without turbulence. Stock paper air filters are also likely part of this design, and using aftermarket filters may negatively affect performance.

You just don't get something for nothing these days, but you'd never believe this was true after looking at all the marketing bullshit in hot-rod magazines or hanging from the ceilings at the local parts store.

-JD

-------------------------------- Enlightenment for The Masses: http:/207.13.104.8/users/jdadams--------------------------------

Reply to
JD Adams

I just wrapped mine in foam. I can still hear it at times, passengers don't even notice the sound.

Reply to
Brent P
** I've also heard this but it hasn't happened to me yet. I installed a ** Trick Flow rear diff cover about 3 months ago and haven't experienced ** any issues with it at all. What brand did you have the problem with?

TA Performance. I was using the lowrider C-springs at the time, which probably dropped it just enough to cause a clearance problem. I've seen 'slim' differential cover girdles marketed recently, so I doubt I'm the only one who had this problem. Again, eBay came to my rescue on this one, and the buyer owned an F-150, so clearance wasn't an issue for him.

-JD

-------------------------------- Enlightenment for The Masses: http:/207.13.104.8/users/jdadams--------------------------------

Reply to
JD Adams
** So far the Flows are doing really well on the car. No drone and I ** doubt that will change since there is no packing inside to loosen up ** and change the sound over time.

Good deal. The 2-chamber Dronemasters I had were POS's, and had to go. Some get rustout and noise problems, some don't. It may be a QC problem.

** It's definitely a low 14 second car with a lighter and more skilled ** driver behind the wheel. Not bad considering that the 1998 non-PI ** heads are back on it's still hampered by the automatic transmission ** and stock torque converter.

Did you have PI heads installed at some point? How did they work out for you?

** Thinking 2001 engine swap with forged pistons, forged crank and custom ** ground cams. Perfect foundation for a little boost down the road.

You can snag a low-mileage 32v boneyard pull pretty cheaply these days too. A well-built, forged reciprocating assembly, better cams (the profile on the OEM '01's is much improved over the '98's) and a KB blower on an iron-block SOHC is my idea of the perfect engine setup. I could probably sneak shit like this past the CA smog-nazi's if I really tried, but it would be a tough sell. I can barely pass smog as it is in stock form. California just sucks.

-JD

-------------------------------- Enlightenment for The Masses: http:/207.13.104.8/users/jdadams--------------------------------

Reply to
JD Adams

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Patrick) wrote

Me: the power steering eliminator that's out there for '65-'70 Mustangs (and Cougars). What it does is replace the PS valve body that screws into the driver side of the drag link, with a "dumb" ball/socket/stud to connect the Pitman arm to the drag link. What it also does is turn your OE power steering equipped car into a dangerous, uncontrollable monster. I can't believe they're still selling these things. I was so firmly convinced of this thing's diabolical hazard that I threw mine away and just ate the $110 purchase price. I was not going to pass this thing on to anyone else, even for free.

As far as listing other misguided mods, the list is too long and tedious. Just take my word for it. Well, here's one more that I'm currently struggling with: trying to get a 625 Road Demon vacuum secondary 4-bbl to work on a pretty much stock 2-bbl 289. The problem is idle and off-idle richness. I've tuned everything down to the leanest possible settings -- main jets, idle screws, float levels -- and still I get eye-watering fumes piling up behind me at most stop lights. I'm probably going to end up with a 500 cfm Edelbrock and eBay the Demon.

Seven

Reply to
180 Out

TA!? C'mon, you're talking Buick language now. :)

I wonder if there would be any problems without the lowering springs? How bad is the interference, could a couple of well placed dimples do the trick?

Steve

72 Skylark
Reply to
A Guy Named Steve
** TA!? C'mon, you're talking Buick language now. :) ** ** I wonder if there would be any problems without the lowering springs? How ** bad is the interference, could a couple of well placed dimples do the trick?

Not in this case. The dent was as big as a man's fist, crumpling the whole side of the tire well. I'm pretty sure the C-springs made the problem worse; it should work fine with stock GT springs. My advice is to buy the 'slim' version and avoid the problem altogether.

-JD

-------------------------------- Enlightenment for The Masses: http:/207.13.104.8/users/jdadams--------------------------------

Reply to
JD Adams

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