Idea of the muscle car is dead (Or, why Ford can't sell cars now)

I can only guess at how these current 300+ HP muscle cars cars would have sold back in the mid 90's with $1.20 gallon gas...

Porky yes, but typical/average today. Hell, 2-seat Porsches are over

3,500 and GT-Rs are almost touching 4,000.

Like the Tundra? ;-)

I think it is/would be a mistake for Ford and GM to walk away from their pony cars. These cars are part of their DNA. Ford = Mustang. Mustang = Ford. Same with the Camaro. Problem is they have to make these cars evolve without getting away from the original formula of fairly small, lightweight, stylish/sporty cars, with excellent performance for the dollar, based on/built off common mechanicals at a relatively low sticker price.

Patrick

But doing a little street racing in a V8 pony car on the way to get a gallon of milk is relatively cheap entertainment.

But I've read women are having kids/family at a much later age now. It's more like late 20s/30s than early 20s.

It fits if the Mustang has a hatchback.

Patrick

I think the Mustang is safe. GM says the Camaro will be more expensive than the Mustang. And the Camaro will weigh about 200-300 lbs more.

Patrick

That's no joke! Up in the rust belt, after 4-5 years the 60's cars looked worse/were more ragged-out than a salmon after spawning.

But we didn't think much of it, since the rest of

I wouldn't use the word "worth". I think it's more accurate to say some people have paid ridiculous money. Kinda like those who have paid thousands for an old baseball card.

Patrick

You've got it. You'll either have a left leaning "Republican" or a left leaning "Muslim."

Yep while they fly overhead in the Lear and Cessna Citations and flip us the bird. I assume you heard the dems was all upset that they could not get discounted gas by draining the city gas in Chicago for their convention, since city gas has no taxes on it.

what the dems want is us in horses and buggies so they can commute by jet and limo

Whew... thank you!

We went so far right we went right into a ditch. I say it's time we yank it left to get us back on the road. Then if/when we go into the ditch on the left side we can pull it back to the right again.

I think McCain is good guy and one that can work both sides of the isle... something we desperately need.

Religion doesn't determine a person's character. (And, not that it matters, but you know he's Catholic, right?)

Obama is another good guy, and I think he has the potential to be a great president. That is as long as some Neanderthal doesn't assassinate him first...

Patrick

I try to be good around the neighborhood. I really do.

Even MORE of a reason to avoide a coupe. Imagine a bunch of broken down

30-somethings trying to shepherd small children in and out of that back seat. I haven't even SEEN the back seat in the Mustang since I topped 50.

It sure as hell fit ME. I always quote your line - the ultimate sport utility vehicle. Unfortunately, the youngest Mustangs with a hatchback are now 15 years old, and not a consideration for today's booming babyers.

dwight

Sounds like the "reporting"/opinion of the FauxOX, spin zone, propaganda news channel.

Patrick

Sure, blame a political party, as if the entire party was unified in its hyperenvironmentalism. Way to think in two-dimensional terms.

Anybody else hear about Nissan's plans to use a push-back accelerator pedal to curb drivers who feel frisky? It's another way to increase fuel mileage, by disallowing brisk acceleration.

What good is a car with 300hp, if you can't use 'em?

dwight

I know he was raised in a Muslim school, his family is Muslim and/or atheist and I know he attended a Christian church where he never heard a

*thing* the pastor said.... Long drawn out nasty story. And though you are generally correct about character I'll just leave it at I disapprove of him for a number of reasons.

Except that oil prices and taxes will likely go so high that normal people will not be able to afford to live. At least McCain has not admitted to wanting to raise taxes *that I've heard*, and he talks about tangible things to do. Obama talks about nothing but change. When you ask what change he says change for the GOOD! Well hell, how can you argue with that?

Come on Patrick, you can't truly think Fox is making false reports or is genuinely biased? And compared to some other agencies?? I mean Rather was blatantly caught in a great big fat lie. You're starting to sound like that whack-o troll with the 72 Mustang that used to drop in on occasion.

Totally. 3,900 lbs? Thank gawd its got 400 horse - it's gonna need them. The interior is, again, the ugliest thing I've seen since the last Camaro. And the price? IRS does that to a car.

It'll get massive hype and go no where.

Brad

There's a current thread on allfordmustangs.com S197 2005+ Talk forum that includes several GT owners who are saying their "equipped" cars are coming in at 3800 or more. 3400 pounds "Curb weight" from specs lists notwithstanding. Seems as if everything that's a mod, worthwhile or not, boosts that already-too-heavy beauty's bottom line.

You gotta expect the Camaro will get that body-weight increment too, as it rolls down the road to immortality.

Absolutely, without question, Fox is a biased "news" source. It's important to gather news from a variety of venues - keep those channels flipping, and then for the real story, turn to Jon Stewart.

dwight

I knows these days, in this country, the constant media drumbeat is:

Muslim = Terrorist

And it's B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T!

I've lived in a 98% Muslim country, twice, for a total of almost three years, and my experience is that they are some of the most friendly, caring, warm-hearted and family-oriented people I've ever met. I'll go further and say I wish our society here in American was even half as good. And I'll finish this by saying I could/can ramble on for hours (please ask me to) telling stories about how well my family and I were treated by the "terrible Muslims".

"and/or"? Wow.

FYI -- they believe in a supreme being.

How would you know what he heard? And of that what he agreed or disagreed with?

Fine. But realize he is one of our/America's brightest (he graduated from Harvard with top honors), and could have picked any law firm he wanted to work for (cha ching!!), yet, instead he went into public service.

And McCain is an outstanding American too. (Though the Bush campaign team destroyed his character/war record back in 2000, like they later did to Kerry in 2004. Sad.)

Oil prices -- like double or triple in price? What was the price of gas again around the year 2000? And what is it now?

Seems anymore the Republicans spend the money (always leave with huge deficits) and the Democrats end up having to pay for it (balance the budget). Who's the "conservative" party, again?

Campaign promises. Even if you 'read their lips', I wouldn't bank on them.

The fact of the matter is neither guy really knows what they can or can't do until they sit in the oval office.

Patrick

I'll be nice and just say that their bias is so obvious it's comedic.

What FauxOX has done is become -- the ditch/low ground on the right side of the road -- the complete flip opposite of the extremists on the left.

Nope. I'm just being me. I think if you go back and read anything I've written in here for the last... 10-12 years... you'll see that I've always been a liberal thinker with conservative values.

Patrick

Yes. It won't be a lightweight.

Around 3,800.

I hope it does well. But I think its timing is bad.

Why oh why didn't we have this car, and the Challenger, about 10 years ago?!

Patrick

You know it's telling -- just how how crappy the "news" has become -- when two guys (Stewart and Colbert) can make an easy/endless living by chastising the media.

Patrick (The best news is on Comedy Central.)