New gears on a AOD?

Hi all,

I want to update the gears on my '98 GT (automatic). The car is my daily driver and I do 90% of my driving in the city. First I thought about 3.55's, then 3.73's and now I'm hearing 4.10's would be best for an AOD.

As I do more research, things such as shifter kits and new programming chips are flying my way. What are the neccesary items I need if i upgrade? I'm looking for insight on the subject and people's opinions with such similar setups.

Sorry if this question has been beaten to death, but I want to buy this only once -- if it's even worth it in the long run.

Thanks, Vince

Reply to
Vince Toplosky
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Other than changing the gears you will want a device so you can correct the speedometer. Shift kit is optional.

Reply to
Richard

I had a 99 GT automatic screw w/ me recently... right before I got 3.73 gears, actually. He had 4.10:1 gears and boy... it was not a slug at all. It kept up with me through 1st & 2nd gear.. end of 2nd I started to pull away,

3rd gear I pulled away... after that I just shut it down. Then I saw him again after I had 3.73:1 gears broken in & lube changed... hehe.. diff. story then ;).

-Mike

-- A happy kid behind the wheel of a 98 Mustang GT Cold air intake FRPP 3.73 gears Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter Full Boar turbo mufflers Hi-speed fan switch

255/60R-15 rear tires

Reply to
<memset

First of all the AOD was only used in Mustangs thru 1984-1993. The AODE was used in the 94 and 95 cars. The 4r70w was used in the 4.6 cars. The 4r70w is a wide ratio version of the AODE, but there is some wiring differences. If you try to put a shift kit for an AOD in your 4r70w your going to have a ton of problems.

As for gear choice a lot is going to depend on what you have now. The typical rule of thumb is that two steps is the minimum adjustment to make it worth doing. To be honest I would say three steps. I have done the 3.27 to

3.73 swap and all it really did was make more noise and suck more gas. The performance gain wasn't even noticeable. I do have a 5.0 not a 4.6 so it may be different for them. If your car has 2.73 and you go with a 3.73 gear your are increasing your mechanical advantage by 36.6%. However if you have 3.27s and go to 3.73s that's only a 14% increase. A 4.10 gear set would be a 25% increase over 3.27s and a 50% increase over 2.73s. Just to thru another thing at you there are a few companies now making a 3.90 gear for the 8.8 if you can't decide between a 3.73 and 4.10.

When changing gears there are a few other things to keep in mind. First is the speedometer will need to be adjusted to read correctly. I'm not sure how that is done on the new cars, but with my AODE that required the speed cal for anything over a 3.55 gear. The is a 23 driven gear, but don't use it. They tend to break apart quickly and can cause problems with the tranny. The second thing is the computer MAY need a chip depending on your mod levels. The steeper gears will raise the shift points (I can tell you why if you really want to know). On a near stock car this is usably a good thing and not a problem. If the car has more mods you could run into problems of hitting the rev limiter before the tranny would shift up. This is more common in cars originally with 2.73s than 3.27s since the gear change is a greater change for them. The third thing is noise. You will be running down the highway at higher rpms, and if you have an aftermarket exhaust system you'll be running in the "drone zone" more often. This won't bother you at first, but will usually wear on the nerves on long trips or when you get older. I know mine drives me nuts. lol

MadDAWG

Reply to
MadDAWG

V'ger jma(NOSPAM)@snowcrest.net

1965 Mustang Fastback 2+2 Vintage Burgundy w/ Black Std Interior 289 ci 4v V8 oem A Code Dual Exhaust C4 Auto converted to AODE 8" Trak Lok Vintage 40 wheels BF Goodrich gForce T/A 225/50ZR-16 KDWS tires Built in San Jose, CA on my birthday, May 10th ; ) Restoration by: Cool Mustang Restorations Cool, CA
Reply to
V'ger

Ok, I have been thinking of doing the same swap. I have not yet done it but here are some sites:

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Still doing my homework....

Good luck on your swap,

Dom>I will be converting the C4 in my 65 to AOD, and the local shop is

Reply to
MJDJ

Thanks. I'm pretty well limed up for the swap... local shop and she specializes in classics. Val wants to put in an AODE, and change the torque converter, using one built locally (or rebuilt) which won't break down like some off the shelf ones.. something to do with the springs being weak or lack of springs (using some other type/method) on the off the shelf versions she has used in the past. Still, I am doing my homework and asking questions to eliminate any misunderstandings, and to make sure I get what I want the first time around. Thanks for the urls.....

Dave

V'ger jma(NOSPAM)@snowcrest.net

1965 Mustang Fastback 2+2 Vintage Burgundy w/ Black Std Interior 289 ci 4v V8 oem A Code Dual Exhaust C4 Auto converted to AODE 8" Trak Lok Vintage 40 wheels BF Goodrich gForce T/A 225/50ZR-16 KDWS tires Built in San Jose, CA on my birthday, May 10th ; ) Restoration by: Cool Mustang Restorations Cool, CA
Reply to
V'ger

You CANNOT run an AODE in your '65...unless you buy a stand alone computer that runs just the transmission. The AODE is an electronic trans which is integrated into and controlled by the EEC PCM which controls the entire drivetrain. Your '65 obviously does not have an EEC system. I've only heard of one company that makes a stand alone computer that runs *just* the trans. Baumann Engineering's Baumannator TCS. You must have a PC to program it correctly.

The AOD does not need a computer. Barring driveshaft length issues, just bolt it in with the swap plate, crossmember and Lokar Throttle Position Cable, and drive away. With the AODE, you'll need all the above PLUS the computer and then run all the connections and power wires, THEN programming. Too much of a PITA IMHO. And it costs more to boot. Just stick with a late

80's early 90's AOD.
Reply to
66 6F HCS

A local specialty shop that doesn't know the "specialty" behind the AODE swap? "Val" doesn't know you HAVE to have a computer to run the AODE, but she specializes in classics??? I would suggest a new shop!!

Reply to
66 6F HCS

Thanks MadDAWG for giving me some insight into what tranny in actually in my car.

Ok...some great replies and the way I understand it now and at the very least:

Gears:

4.10's for the AOD when city driving. They could suck when driving on the highway (higher RPMs = more drone with an aftermarket exhaust, plus less gas mileage)). I could piss some people off by choosing 3.73's.

The installation kit for replacing the shims, bearings etc. I would probably do this anyway since the car has 75K+ miles on it.

A device such as a SpeedCal to recalibrate the speedometer. A performance chip that really does what the SpeedCal does PLUS helps change the shift points on the AOD. My mods are only on the intake/exhaust. Do I really need the chip to do this (i.e. do I really need to adjust the shift points or can I live with it.)?

Thanks, Bubba Z.

Reply to
Vince Toplosky

Novice that I am, it could be that I misunderstood. There are a number of rod shops etc, in the local area, and 9 out of 10 recommended this shop. And it's been around for quite a while. So, more homework.

I do appreciate the input. Every time I drop in I learn something form the people with experience.

Dave

V'ger jma(NOSPAM)@snowcrest.net

1965 Mustang Fastback 2+2 Vintage Burgundy w/ Black Std Interior 289 ci 4v V8 oem A Code Dual Exhaust C4 Auto converted to AODE 8" Trak Lok Vintage 40 wheels BF Goodrich gForce T/A 225/50ZR-16 KDWS tires Built in San Jose, CA on my birthday, May 10th ; ) Restoration by: Cool Mustang Restorations Cool, CA
Reply to
V'ger

Dave, V'ger is right on the money. If you don't have a computer, you're not going to be running an AODE. This is a fact. You need to find out what the hell Val's talking about, because it doesn't make sense.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

V'ger wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Reply to
Joe

"Joe" wrote

Actually I'm the one who said he needed a computer. :)

Reply to
66 6F HCS

"66 6F HCS" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

Sorry, Scott. My bad. :)

But the point's been well made - I think Val needs to explain himself.

BTW, here's some good AOD stuff:

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Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Reply to
Joe

Gee, lets not fight over who advised what...; ) I just appreciate the good information from all who give it. Us Newbies need all the help we can get.... which explains my standing appointment with my shrink... LOL...

Personally, I would rather stay away from any comouter stuff, and keep things simple.

So, what am I giving up, if anything, with an AOD vs the AODE? Strength? Drivability? Gearing? Anything? Nothing? This is the primary issue for me. That whatever I get will serve me well for the application. I need a reasonably economic daily driver, which can handle city traffic with a little stoplight action once in a while, and comfortably on the open road for trips between California and Ohio where my daughter lives.

If the AOD will do it, great. If this forces me to go to the AODE, then that's life in the fast lane.

Overall, just in case I have to go into hiding in an Amish community, I'm trying to stay away from computerized stuff 'cause they don't hold with modern stuff.... ; )

V'ger jma(NOSPAM)@snowcrest.net

1965 Mustang Fastback 2+2 Vintage Burgundy w/ Black Std Interior 289 ci 4v V8 oem A Code Dual Exhaust C4 Auto converted to AODE 8" Trak Lok Vintage 40 wheels BF Goodrich gForce T/A 225/50ZR-16 KDWS tires Built in San Jose, CA on my birthday, May 10th ; ) Restoration by: Cool Mustang Restorations Cool, CA
Reply to
V'ger

"V'ger" wrote

The AOD is based on the C-4 and FMX, the AODE is an evolved AOD. "The AOD-E/4R70W is the latest and best Ford performance transmission, and in our opinion, represents the foreseeable future of performance rear-wheel-drive automatic transmission technology. The beauty of the AOD-E/4R70W is that it retains all of the AOD's good features while improving the weak points (some of which can be improved in an AOD by using AOD-E parts). The AOD-E incorporates an enlarged two-inch-wide overdrive band, thereby eliminating an obvious weak link as well as providing some of the previously mentioned upgrade parts for the AOD. Another feature that is greatly improved from the AOD is the "lockup" or torque converter bypass system. Instead of the weaker concentric input shaft system of the AOD, the AOD-E/4R70W uses an actual clutch in the converter to provide lockup under EEC control, rather than the fixed "60% lockup" in third and "full lockup" in fourth gear system of the AOD. The stronger input shaft and greater flexibility of this system are further enhanced by the fact that the converter clutch may actually be partially applied or "slipped" under electrical PWM (pulse-width-modulation) control from the EEC PCM. Unfortunately, the lockup system from the AOD-E cannot be transferred to your existing AOD, but vendors such as Precision Industries and Art Carr Transmissions provide high quality input shafts and torque converters that can either strengthen the inner (most likely to snap) input shaft or eliminate the AOD's "lockup" feature altogether (as in the case of Art Carr' s solid input shaft, which bears a strong resemblance to the factory AOD-E input shaft). Finally, the 4R70W (AOD-EW) wide-ratio gear-set can be transplanted into any AOD or standard-ratio AOD-E application for greater first and second gear pulling power."- V1.1 © Copyright 1994, 1995, 1998 by Karl Baumann. All rights reserved.

All in all. The AOD without a computer is just fine for your application and way easier to install. You can use the wide ratio gearset from the 4R70W to give you even more go on the bottom end too. It's the best of both worlds.

Reply to
66 6F HCS

"66 6F HCS" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

Excellent advice. Last thing - check the link as it's full of great stuff:

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Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Reply to
Joe

V'ger jma(NOSPAM)@snowcrest.net

1965 Mustang Fastback 2+2 Vintage Burgundy w/ Black Std Interior 289 ci 4v V8 oem A Code Dual Exhaust C4 Auto converted to AODE 8" Trak Lok Vintage 40 wheels BF Goodrich gForce T/A 225/50ZR-16 KDWS tires Built in San Jose, CA on my birthday, May 10th ; ) Restoration by: Cool Mustang Restorations Cool, CA
Reply to
V'ger

Vince,

I got in on this a little late but it looks like you're pretty much being pointed in the right direction with one small exception. You can't adjust the speedo in a pre-99 car with a chip or reflash. The computer doesn't have any control over the speedo / odo cluster pre-99, it only monitors it. Because of this you actually have to do

2 different operations on an AODE car for gear swaps... (1) SpeedCal for speedo / odo correction, (2) Chip or re-flash for shift-point correction. Some people just live with the funky shift-points so this correction is not mandatory. My suggestion is to do the gear swap, install the SpeedCal, then see if you like the way the tranny shifts. You can then plan your next move depending on your level of satisfaction.

Good Luck!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Tom

1998 GT Coupe 5-spd. Bright Atlantic Blue K&N FIPK, Tri-Ax, 3.73's, FRPP Coated Shorties, SpeedCal, P&P 2K Heads, 2K Intake, Bassani X-Pipe and Cat-Back, Subframe Connectors, JMS Chip, Eagle Alloy Wheels
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Reply to
bluestang98

I'll second that as well. With miinor mods such as yours the increase in shift points my actually be just right. Its when you really start putting more power down that it becomes a problem with hitting the rev limiter.

MadDAWG

Reply to
MadDAWG

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