On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:11:15 GMT, wrote something wonderfully witty:
Given a base Corvette, and a base Mustang sitting side by side, which do you think most would be interested in if they could have one or the other for free? Hell which do you think would just attract more gawkers.
There's no comparison with a base Corvette & a base Mustang lol if price isn't factored in.
-Mike
-- A happy kid behind the wheel of a 98 Mustang GT Cold air intake FRPP 3.73 gears Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter Flowmaster 40 Series mufflers (self-installed woohoo) Hi-speed fan switch
255/60R-15 rear tires Subframe connectors Aluminum adjustable clutch quadrant
Um... The '03 & '04 Terminator Cobra's are already faster and have near Corvette handling when compared with the same year. The Terminator Cobras are putting more power to the ground than the same year Z06's and the new C6. The next Cobra, which will be produced, will have more power than the new C6 (the Terminator already does) and will handle just as well on the new platform for less. I'm not comparing the next Cobra to the C6 Z06, they are in a different price range. And I do agree that they are two different cars for two different purposes. Heck, the Vette guys think the new Z06 will compare to the GT. Don't think so...
I didn't say I would turn one down if I won one, I said I wouldn't own one. I'm not crazy, I'd accept it and sell it.
I'll second that. I'll take delivery and sell it before I even title it. I'd never own one. I personally do not like Corvette's, They're shaped like a door stop and do not visually apeal to me. I didn't say it was a bad automobile. I'd also never own a Porshe, Ugly (notice the capital "U") but that's also a personal preference.
"WraithCobra" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net:
Mike, you're dreaming. The Corvette does 0-60 in under 4 seconds off the showroom floor. What stock Cobra does that?
Flat out nonsense. The next Cobra is nothing but a rumor. And the Terminator has 390/390 vs. the C6's 400/400. Those are facts.
Mike, you need to wake up.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
Time slips have already proven that the Terminator is faster than the same year Vette (not Z06) in the 1/4. The Terminators put down an average of 365 horses to the ground show room stock, closer to 385 with only a CAI and cat-back. The C5 has a RWHP around
300, and the Z06 about 350.
The Terminator is under rated, that's a fact! The factory numbers are closer to 425/425, thats without a CAI and cat-back. The only thing holding the Cobra back is weight, 3650 lbs. The Terminator puts down over 15 more RWHP stock than the C5 Z06 (dyno proven) and is only a few 10ths behind in the
1/4. Here's some facts for you......You need to stop Magazing racing becuse in the real world the '03 & '04 Cobras are faster than a C5 Vette and handle almost as well for thousands less.
I agree that the '03-'04 Cobras can match, and in some instances beat, the C5 Vettes at the drag strip but that is where it ends. A C5 will tromp a Mustang Cobra on a road course. The new C6 Vette is even better and stock for stock will likely match the Cobra at the strip and would destroy it otherwise. I like Mustangs but putting one up against a C5, and especially a C6, will lead to a big disappointment.
BTW, the upcoming Z06 is going to be one nasty sports car. My guess is it will handily trounce about every sports car selling for under $100k and give the Ford GT a good scare stock for stock.
A stock Cobra will easily out run a stock C5 Corvette in the 1/4, the Z06 is only a half second faster. The Cobra also handles better than most people think. On a loose road course the Cobra would have no problem keeping up with a C5, a tighter course with more transitions will slow the Cobra down due to its weight distribution.
I'm not really comparing the Current Cobra with the C6, I just stated that the Cobra puts more power to the ground to make my point about the base C5.
Why is it that the C6 Z06 rumors are so believable (have it running with the GT, which I don't believe) and the Cobra rumors are way off base (that it will out run and handle as well as a base C6)? The current Cobra already out run's the current C5, there is no question about that. The current Cobra is the fastest Mustang ever sold to the public and the second best handling Mustang ever sold to the public, with the '00 Cobra R being the first. So why is it so hard to believe that the new Cobra built on the new platform will not again be faster than the current C6 Corvette and handle close to if not as well as it does? I know the new platform will still have some weight problems, but that's not as detrimental to handling as other factors that have been corrected from the old chassis. I can't believe that so many people on a Mustang news group put the Corvette on such a high pedestal while they kick the Mustang to the curb. Makes no sense...
"WraithCobra" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net:
Easily? No way. Maybe on a good day with a good driver, but you get what you pay for. A C5 is simply a better overall car.
Again, maybe on a good day with a good driver (and a bad driver in the Corvette). Generally speaking, the Corvette will beat the Cobra.
Let's be real here. The C5 is at least as fast and certainly handles better than the Cobra. On a good day, the Cobra may beat the C5 in a straight line, but that's all.
Rumors are just that. The fact is that where the Cobra was competitive in '04, it's far behind in '05. Look at the numbers for the Cobra and the C6 - no comparison.
As for the Z06 vs. GT, we'll just have to wait and see.
There certainly is. BTW, the C5 isn't current - it's last year's model. We're in 2005.
Because nobody knows when the "new Cobra" will be built, or even if it will be built. It's all conjecture at this point.
Nobody's kicking the Mustang to the curb. It's a great car for the price. The Corvette is simply better (i.e., you get what you pay for). Here are some facts:
a) There's no Cobra in '05. b) The C6 is an awesome car available now. c) The Z06 will be an even more awesome car available later this year. d) Nobody knows what the "new Cobra" will really be. e) Nobody knows when the "new Cobra" will be built.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
I wouldn't say the Cobra, stock vs. stock, would easily outrun a C5 in the 1/4 mile. The Vette has better traction and a weight advantage thats good for the equivalent of 40-50 hp. Where the Cobra shines is when the engine are done but this is the case with most forced induction engines.
Aside from the engine changes the C6 isn't that far off from a C5 in handling. In fact, the C6 isn't a new chassis but a tweaked version of the C5. While power to the ground is important that is just one component that makes for a good all around performance car.
I don't know what the new Cobra will be but I suspect it will have the same drive train as the '03-'04 cars. IMO, that is one of the best, if not the best, engine ever put in a mass produced automobile. Why mess with success? I think Ford will probably tweak it to make a little more than 400 hp.
The problem the Mustang has when put up against the Vette is a result of the intended use of each car. The Mustang is meant to be a daily driver that is affordable. This results in driving positions, car's center of gravity location etc. that is not optimized for all out performance. The chassis is a derivative of a four door sedan which has compromises from the standpoint of performance. This isn't a bad thing. It's just what Ford had to do to keep it affordable and functional for its intended buyers. While the chassis is light years ahead of the old Fox platform it still has compromises that affect the car's performance. I think Ford has hit a home run with the new Stang but this doesn't mean it is a competitor for the Vette.
Now the Vette is a completely different story. It was designed from the ground up to be a two seater sports car. No major compromises were necessary during its design. This means independent rear suspensions that aren't an after thought retrofit, lower center of mass, trannies located behind the driver to optimize weight distribution, front suspension that doesn't compromise for engine size (like in the new Mustang) and many, many other items that enhance performance. All these things add up to a car that is quite a capable performer even for the price of $50k. Hell, you can't buy a loaded pickup truck for much less than that and many SUV's cost more!
I'm not kicking the Mustang to the curb. I have one sitting in my garage that I'll keep until I'm taking a dirt nap. That being said, I also won't take a position of making the Mustang out to be more than what it is - a very good pony car at a very good price that can be a daily driver, if necessary. IMO, the new Mustang fills this role almost to perfection but that's about as far as I will go until I see what Ford does with the Cobra version. I do know that they can only do so much with the car (i.e chassis) because of it's basic design function.
NO, a stock supercharged Cobra will out 1/4 a stock C5 Vette any day of the week. You don't need a good day or a good driver to do that. Now the Cobra will need a CAI, cat-back, a good driver, and a bit o'luck to do the same to a C5 Z06. You need to get out of the Magazines and into the real world. The C5 is a better car for who, not me. It's interior is worse than any Mustang, although the Cobra has a compromised IRS the Vette IRS is an old school piece and isn't much better. The engine is strong but a few cubes will do that, I'd rather have more power per cube. I also like my back seats and trunk space so the Corvette is not a better car than my Cobra to me. If I'd wanted a Corvette I would have bought a Corvette. It would have been nice if Ford would have used an aluminum block and did a bit more with the IRS. Then the Cobra would have been equal handling with the Vette and faster too. What would you bitch about then?
On a loose track the Cobra could make up for any loss in the corner on the straight, remember it's putting almost 80 more horses to the ground than a C5. On a tighter track where alot of weight is transferd the C5 has the advantage and the Cobra's power will be unable to make up the difference.
I'm not compairing the Cobra to the C6, my point was that the Cobra puts down more power than the new C6. Of course the C6 is a better performer than the Cobra, it's a revised platform from the C5. I'm trying to compare same year vehicles here, the next Cobra (or what ever it's called) will have the same performance as the C6.
I know this, again I'm referencing same year models. The "current" Cobra ('03 & '04) and the "current" Corvette ('03 & '04) why is this so hard to understand?
It's already been in the press that the new Cobra will be at the New York Auto Show in March. Get with the program here...
So what... The cobra is not, and never has been an option nevery year. It is a limited production automobile.
Awesome to some, I personally don't like it and wouldn't own one.
Awesom like the Viper which is another ugly car I'd never own.
The rumors are out there and most have it a 5.4L Whipple Twin-Screw aluminum block (maybe the GT block) with 3 valve heads, 6 speed, and IRS. The rumors also point toward an automatic option (maybe a sequential manual) and live axle option. The C6 Z06 was also only rumors months ago, "so what" the Cobra info is only rumors.
Somebody does, they just aint tellin'. We'll see what is shown two months from now in New York.
Look it up, the '03 & '04 Cobras run faster 1/4 times than compareable year Corvettes.
This is kinda what I'm trying to explain. The Cobra is a good all around performance car. The Vette handles better, the Cobra's faster. the Vette has better aero, the Cobra has back seats and a trunk. Different cars but a similar performance level considering the differences in the functionality of the two.
It already does make more than 400, dyno results on stock Cobras put the output at closer to 425. The next Cobra will most likely use an aluminum block 5.4L Twin-Screw with 450 - 550 rated horsepower similar to the GT engine. It may or may not be the same block used in the GT. It has been rumored that the Lightning and Cobra were to use the same engine before the Lightning was put on the back burner. Ford used the iron 4.6L block in the current Cobra for warrantee and longevity reasons. A 5.4L would be able to make more power with less stress on the block, the Twin-Screw also helps in this respect so a lighter aluminum block can be used.
I think a Cobra on the new platform will at least have the same small performance gap that the current Cobra has with the Vette now. The new Mustang platform is, don't quote me here, 32% more ridgid than the Fox4 chasis.
There are other automobiles that will out handle the Vette for alot less, now these will not have the power of a V8 but the Vette isn't the best handler out there for the money either.
I'm not making it more than it is either, I'm stating facts. The Cobra is faster and more powerful than the Vette. (comparing same years here) The Vette may handle better, but not by a wide enough margin in some cases to beat a Cobra. (I said some cases) The Vette is a two seat sports car where the Cobra has back seats and a usable trunk, which I prefer to have. And if I owned a Vette I'd at least know who my comptition was, or soon find out.
"WraithCobra" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net:
Mike, let's just agree to disagree. Everything I've seen indicates that the '04 Cobra won't do any real damage to an '04 C5. As for the C6, there's no contest.
By your own admission, all the hype about the new Cobra is rumor. When has Ford said the new Cobra that'll supposedly appear in NY will go on sale to the general public? When we hear the answer to that, I'll pay serious attention. Until that, it's just another concept car.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:44:16 -0500, "WraithCobra" wrote something wonderfully witty:
Dude, you really need to start sharing your drugs. Your taking way to many of them yourself.
On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 16:53:18 -0500, "WraithCobra" wrote something wonderfully witty:
I own a Vette, not even a current generation one either. My competition isn't a Cobra. Never has been, never will be. While I don't have backseats that only a child can fit in (who needs em)? I bet I have more cubic storage space in my Vette then your Cobra. But that isn't the point either. It ain't for getting groceries. I have a nice little `01 Mustang drop-top that I can do that in.
So you like your car? Most do, but you should not be making claims that just don't stand up.
From this site
2001 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 4.6 13.0
2001 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 4.8 13.1 2002 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 4.1 12.5From another site
2003 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 4.8 13.6 @ 107
2004 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 4.8 13.6 @ 107 2004 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 4.0 12.5 @ 115 2005 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 4.3 12.7 @ 112This site also shows the 2004 Cobra with a .90 skidpad the 2004 Corvette with a .91 skidpad and the 2005 Corvette with a .95 skidpad
I know there are more factors where handling is concerned, but like I said, on a loose course the Cobra will be able to hold it's own with a Corvette. It's the tighter courses where the cars weight & balance play a larger role where the Cobra's power will not make up for the Vette's better handling. Also note that both sites show the Cobra quicker in the quarter than the C5, equal to the C6, and just behind the C5 Z06. This is what I've been saying, and now it's right here in print from 2 other sources.
Six months ago the C6 Z06 was nothing but a rumor. Again, automotive rumors usually have some basis of fact. The C6 Z06 was a rumor, now it's a final product that will be in showrooms soon. The next Cobra is a rumor that will be a final product in the near future and be in showrooms in the not so near future.
We can agree to disagree, but what I've said about the current Cobra's performance is based on fact. There's also alot of information floating around about the next Cobra, and it's not my problem if you choose to ignore it becuse you like to complain about Ford.
Quoted from my other post:
From this site
2001 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 4.6 13.0
2001 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 4.8 13.1 2002 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 4.1 12.5From another site
2003 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 4.8 13.6 @ 107
2004 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 4.8 13.6 @ 107 2004 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 4.0 12.5 @ 115 2005 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 4.3 12.7 @ 112This site also shows the 2004 Cobra with a .90 skidpad the 2004 Corvette with a .91 skidpad and the 2005 Corvette with a .95 skidpad
I know there are more factors where handling is concerned, but like I said, on a loose course the Cobra will be able to hold it's own with a Corvette. It's the tighter courses where the cars weight & balance play a larger role where the Cobra's power will not make up for the Vette's better handling. Also note that both sites show the Cobra quicker in the quarter than the C5, equal to the C6, and just behind the C5 Z06. This is what I've been saying, and now it's right here in print from 2 other sources.
Facts are facts, the Cobra is faster and has near Corvette handling. Just becuse you can't fathom a "Mustang" being in the same performance league as the "All Mighty Corvette" doesn't mean it isn't true. Get over it...
"WraithCobra" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net:
You're the one who advised that I stop magazine racing; now I can tell you to stop Internet racing. Like I said, I've seen more C5s beat up on Cobras than the other way around.
Pure conjecture on your part. It's all wishful dreaming, anyway. The Z06 is real, the "new Cobra" is not.
Debatable at best.
Mike, I'm not complaining about a thing. You're the one who's getting all bent out of shape. At least I can see these cars for what they really are (and aren't) in the real world.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
Well, I know what the Cobra can and can't do in the real world. I've stated the facts and backed up those statements with data. You just go on believing the Corvette is faster and handles so much better than the Cobra and live happily ever after. I know the truth, and I'm done trying to make you see it. You can lead a guy to an affordable sports car, but you can't make him believe.
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.