Next Corvette To Go Mid-Engine. Next Cobra...?

A while back I wrote about the possibility of the Corvette, Viper and our beloved Cobra switching from strictly RWD to all-wheel drive. The thinking was with all three cars now offering 500+, further increases in horsepower to stay ahead of the competition would become a joke. "Wow, my new Cobra/Viper/Vette, with its extra 50 horsepower this year, can now roast the tires 25 feet longer than Brand X's car." Well, I guess the Corvette engineers have been thinking much the same thing for a while now. Seems the next generation Corvette -- due out sometime around 2010 -- is this close >< to getting the green light to become a mid-engine sports car. I figured AWD would be easier and cheaper, but word has it the Corvette's Chief wants the next- generation Vette to be a take-no-prisoners World beater. And word has it the spy pics are absolutely stunning. Price for this gorgeous next generation techno-marvel: about the cost of today's convertible Vette. If GM can deliver, they will, no doubt, turn the sports car world upside down.

Which brings us back to our Cobra. It's obvious Ford has recently -- since the 2000 R model -- been trying to keep the Cobra in the Vette's rear view, if not its side-view mirrors. But now with the Vette likely to get the advantage/traction of a mid-engine design, what is Ford's well-muscled pony supposed to do to keep up if adding more HP/ tire smoke isn't enough? Obviously, it wouldn't make sense to design a mid-engine Mustang, but will Ford offer a Cobra with AWD?

Comments?

Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L
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I remember reading a while back, in a well-known car magazine, about the imminent arrival of the mid-engine Corvette. 1973, I believe it was, and this beast was supposed to arrive in time for the 1976 model year. Uh, didn't happen.

Paul

Reply to
Paul

What a lot of us that grew up with the original Mustangs really need now - is a 4 door Mustang! A grocery getting, kid (or grandkid) picker-upper with a V-8 deep throated rumble and nostalgia! Done right, it'll sell very nicely, but done wrong, it'll flop big time.

Reply to
John

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote in news:1188008923.534778.160040 @x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com:

Comparing a Mustang to a Corvette is absurd.

Ford will never offer an AWD Mustang in my driving lifetime. It goes against the Mustang's philosophy. Not to mention the fact that they couldn't afford to build it anyway..

Reply to
Joe

"John" wrote in news:46cf9a57$0$18965$ snipped-for-privacy@roadrunner.com:

John, the car you're referring to is available now at your Dodge dealer. It's called a Charger.

Reply to
Joe

I agree. Ford can't polish a $25k V-8 RWD muscle car into an AWD Corvette chaser. If Ford wants a Corvette challenger then they need to design a dedicated chassis and drive train.... just like GM does.

I don't believe GM is going to make the next generation of Vette a mid engine car as it has excellent weight distribution as is. I think there is a good chance it will remain RWD. Next gen Vettes have been more an improvement on the last one than a complete redesign. I don't think the next one will be that radical a change (i.e AWD) from the current one.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

Yes Paul, GM has in the past considered building a mid-engine Vette. But this is the new GM -- the one that currently builds the best sport car for the dollar on the planet, period. It's going to happen... look for it in 2010.

Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L

It is. That's why I'm not. I'm simply stating that it's obvious Ford has recently -- since the 2000 R model -- been trying to keep the Cobra's straight- line performance comparable to the Vette and Viper. And in the Mustang's current configuration, just throwing more horsepower at it won't get the job done. Either they are going to have to lighten the car A LOT or increase traction. And increasing traction could increase sales in the North, so offering AWD makes sense. Do you disagree with this?

Seeing that the Mustang is Ford's [only?] recent success story, the fact there's a slew of competition -- from the new Camaro, Challenger and a RWD Hyundai -- about to make their market debut, and an upcoming generation of new buyers who like cutting-edge technology, I think it would be wise for them to keep all their "options on the table" if they want to hold onto their market share.

Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L

I'm confused.

All of these horsepower advances are great, and I really hope that Ford beats our horse to death.

But aren't we at cross-purposes here?

The surge to Go Green is approaching critical mass. Aside from the whole global warming thing (whether you believe it to be fact or not), the political climate alone dictates that we pursue other energy sources. Every year, there will be stronger forces trying to wean us off of oil-based internal combustion engines. The clock is ticking.

How is it that developmental engineers have been given the go-ahead to spend untold millions of budgetary dollars to create ever-more-powerful versions of a transportation device that may soon go the way of the dinosaurs? Isn't anyone looking forward, or is this a purposely shortsighted project to make immediate profit, while delaying the inevitable?

Are the Japanese chasing gas-blown horsepower, or is the bulk of their creative energies and financial resources being spent on future tech? And is this yet another indication of the Big Three being so far behind the curve?

dwight (for debate only. Personal disclaimer - I'm addicted to oil.)

Reply to
dwight

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: [...]

Ford sold 160,412 Mustangs in 2005 and 165,762 in 2006. How does that compare to Chevrolet's Corvette success? Camaro? Challenger?

How many cars constitutes a "success"?

Reply to
Frank ess

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote in news:1188044433.783170.79470 @q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

increases

Is it comparable now? I really don't know - it's a real question.

Indeed.

I think they'll have to do both.

No, but I think it's an esoteric point. The real reason I don't think we'll ever see an AWD Mustang is because it would require an entirely new platform. It's just way too expensive to do.

I agree fully. But the current Mustang platform simply can't handle AWD. The weight increase alone would kill the car.

Reply to
Joe

"dwight" wrote in news:naKdnaAZuZtZu03bnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

All basically true. But IMO it has nothing at all to do with pony/muscle/sports cars.

I'm confident that gasoline-only-powered automobiles will be with us for the remainder of our lives (dwight, I'm talking about _our_ lives seeing that we're both on the "downslope").

In today's paper there was an article about how GM is developing an engine that approaches the efficiency level of a diesel but runs on gasoline. So makers are still tinkering with the good ol' internal combustion engine, even while they're developing electric vehicles.

I think the Japanese are moving towards future tech, but in the meantime, they still need to sell cars today. I'll gamble that at least one Japanese maker comes out with a RWD high-hp car to compete with the Mustang sooner or later. Keep an eye on Hyundai.

Reply to
Joe

"Frank ess" wrote in news:KvKdnWLfMvrfCE3bnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

Units sold really doesn't tell the story, as there are a ton of other factors to consider. The Mustang is a runaway success, but it's unique within Ford in that respect. The Corvette will always have a niche, and it's GM's pride. The Camaro and Challenger aren't out yet, so who knows?

Reply to
Joe

Michael Johnson wrote in news:tLGdnXdkl- aVJlLbnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

increases

Bing-freakin'-go. Agreed 1000%.

GM has nothing to worry about as far as the Corvette is concerned. It just keeps getting better and better, and GM will always make it. It's one of the cornerstones of the company.

Reply to
Joe

Well, good. What are some?

Reply to
Frank ess

The Corvette has its own niche that has little competition. Even from the foreign import segment. There is a long line of loyal Corvette fans just waiting for a little better car than the one they own. It is a ritual for them to get the new gen Vette every four years or so. In a way they aren't that different from Mustang buyers in that they get a tremendous amount of performance relative to the dollars they spend.

GM has been using the Z06 as the teaser for what the next variant of the base Corvette will become. The next Vette will be a tad under 500 hp and take much of the technology from the current Z06. Especially the drive train. It will likely receive INCREMENTAL improvements across the board. IMO, when they moved the transmission to the rear of the car it gave the Vette the ability to achieve world class handling performance even without AWD.

OTOH, the Mustang has always been a poor man's performance car. That means it is low tech and easy to tweak by the owner. As an old boss of mine used to say "You can polish a turd only so much and even then it will still smell like shit". The same goes for the Mustang. The only thing Ford needs to do is option it well, offer an affordable GT package, give it some good looks and keep the after market performance parts going strong. They do this and the car will sell.

Why is the current Mustang selling well with an ancient solid axle design in a world of IRS cars? IMO, it is because Mustang buyers want one, or more of those four things I just mentioned. Mustang owners are looking to split wood..... not carve pieces of fine art.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

Economics 101:

For a manufacturer, a car is a success when enough are sold to make a profit, after paying the design costs, and the factory startup and qualification costs.

If the profit margin is thin (e.g., Ford Focus), lots of cars must be sold; if the margin is fat (e.g., Bentley Continental GT Speed), very few cars need be sold.

And, of course, many cars use parts from other cars (e.g., the Ford Mustang Shelby GT500); so, the incremental design/startup/qual costs are relatively small.

Reply to
Bob Willard

"Frank ess" wrote in news:0oCdnd1IUekIUE3bnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

How about profit? You can look up the others.

Reply to
Joe

Michael Johnson wrote in news:NP- dnftay70NlUzbnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

Another direct hit. Well said, Michael.

Reply to
Joe

Among the characteristics of character that render individuals extremely uncomfortable within themselves is a smug arrogance.

You can look up the others.

Reply to
Frank ess

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