Oil question

5W30 is going to offer a bit more protection after the car is warmed up. I'd probably switch to a 5W30 synthetic regardless of what manual said.. but that's just me. I use a 10W30 synthetic right now... 98 Mustang GT w/ 102k miles on the car.. runs like new.

-Mike

Is it really? I think it's just going to be slightly thicker, which doesn't automatically equate to more protection. It does mean there will be slightly more power spent pumping the oil through the engine, though.

Dana

I had a 95 Astro van with 214,000 miles on it, and it runs GREAT.... never had anything but regular oil changes with Dino-lube..

I say put in what the manufacturer and the engineers reccommend, and stop trying to second guess them !

Bingo!! If a customer insists on synthetics, he will get 5W30. However, regular changes of 5W20 offers comparable protection unless the motor sees some really extreme conditions.

Now that we're into summer, I pull my holiday trailer with a sadly underpowered SuperCrew 4X4 (I should have held out for the 5.4 but the deal on this 4.6 equipped truck was way too sweet) with no oil related concerns what-so-ever.

I experimented with synthetics several years ago on two different trucks... I didn't see anything I wouldn't have expected with dino-lube but the added cost of the synthetics drove maintanance cost sky high.

** I experimented with synthetics several years ago on two different trucks... ** I didn't see anything I wouldn't have expected with dino-lube but the added ** cost of the synthetics drove maintanance cost sky high.

Funny you should mention this. I got into a discussion about this with a friend of mine, who just put in a rebuilt 5.0.

She showed me photos of the inside of the valve covers. You would not believe how many POUNDS of hard, crunchy, crispy, black deposits regular petroleum left. There was so many deposits, that huge 1/2 lb. chunks were falling off, blocking oil return passages.

Enter synthetics. The fact that synthetics keep the inside of the engine clean-as-a-whistle is enough for me. The inside of my valve covers look like new, as did my PCV valve when I checked it at its 35,000 replacement interval. It was so clean in fact, that I left it alone. Normally at 5,000 miles, a PCV valve is already black and crusty with deposits from petroleum-based oil. Internal temps run 10 degrees less, and friction is down. What's not to like?

Ahhh, the cost. I plan to keep Charlene forever, so it's worth it to me. If you like buying a new car every 10 years, there's no point - on that we can agree.

-JD

________________________________________________________ | | | 1998 Laser Red GT RAMFM Member Since 1998 | | M-5400-A Suspension http:/207.13.104.8/users/jdadams || Subframe Connectors & Seat Bracing, Strut Tower Brace || 4-point K-frame Brace, Tremec T-45 & OEM 3.27:1 Gears ||________________________________________________________|

You should stick to the recommended hot viscosity ( w20 according to your post) but any oil that meets the API recomendation will work.

A higher warm viscosity will cost you more energy in windage and pumping and will not give you proper film thickness in the oil film bearings (the main bearings).

I've got an 89 5.0 that calls for SF, I believe (SF for the API) . All API letters following SF or (for example SG, SH, SI) are backwards compatible for things like seal swell, foaming etc.

To digress a second here consider this. 40 years ago when they were building those gorgeous Shelby's there was no SF rated motor oils so they were not spec'd out. This does not mean that an SF or later API rated oil should not be used in those engines. Better oils are available that wil extend the life of those engines. Staying within the upper viscosity numbers is important.

I've run a 0W30 in my original 5.0 for 400k so far and the thing jut keeps running. The rest of the car is tired but the engine is good.

i looked at a replacement 5.0 this week. Aside from other niggles the guy told me he was running 20-50. I walked based on that alone. What that means is on cold start the engine was getting no oil for longer than if using the recommended 10W30. When warm the bearing clearances were less than design as the oil wasn't getting there in enough quantity due to pumpability issues and the film thickness was less than desireable. Just because oil pressure looks good on a gage doesn't mean it's all good. The output of the oil pump can be blocked and still show good pressure (assuming the pressure sensor is seeing the pressure). Pressure means nothing without flow. Oil pressure is easier to measure than flow, oil flow is assumed when pressure is met. When you change the thickness of the oil (viscosity) pressure can still be met but flow is compromised (too thick or thin). A lower pressre is okay as long as oil temp is proper to stay within the viscosity window of a multigrade (multiviscosity) oil, and oil flow requirements are met in that all parts requiring oil are getting oil.

A lower cold number (the 0 on 0W30) will get oil into the engine faster on start. the old saying that 90% of engine wear occurs on start up is true, a lower cold vis will only help.

Stick to the manufacturer warm vis is my advice.

I would go to a 0W20 semi synthetic. It used to be that synthetic oils were not as good at holding the additives (anti foam, detergents, HP additives etc) and therefor a semi synthetic was best, as the synthetics offered better lubricity while the organics held the additives better. I believe that in recent years synthetics have improved at holding additives, but this is just an assumption on my part.

My advice is if cost is an issue, use a semi synthetic 0W20 like an Esso ED3, if cost is not an issue go with Mobil 1 full snthetic if they make a

0w20.

just my opinion

Mike L

In all truth, JD...I see many, many motors run with conventional oils that are spotless when we open them. The usual exception to the rule is when we see a motor with a siezed shut heat riser valve (obviously no longer a problem on new cars)..... the heat riser passage in the intake will get hot enough to bake oil guck to the bottom of the manifold.

Again, the secret is not in the oil but in when it is changed.

Apparently not. My car had Syntec religiously changed before I got it and it was full of varnish. The Chevy van of a friend of mine had Penzoil changed religiously and it had gunk in it like JD spoke of. I change the Amsoil in my Mustang once a year and aside from the Syntec varnish that the Amsoil has not yet cleaned, it is spotless.

My take is that there is no secret - it's really a matter of how much abuse the oil has seen and the source of oil abuse is heat. Overheat an engine just once and dino oil needs changing immediately; full-synthetic has a greater tolerance for heat but there's no silver bullet.

Certainly, a very aggressive oil change schedule can make up for a lot of abuse, that's been proven over and over again. At the same time, manufacturers are recommending 5000-7500 mile oil change intervals under 'normal', non-dusty use. My approach is to strictly observe the manufacturer interval but I use full-synthetic Mobil 1 and avoid over-heating the engines.

On three vehicles I've owned from new between 1990 and now, I've run up about 400,000 miles with not even a hint of an oil-related problem. No problems with varnish, chunks-o-gunk or oil consumption.

Dana

** Apparently not. My car had Syntec religiously changed before I ** got it and it was full of varnish. The Chevy van of a friend of mine ** had Penzoil changed religiously and it had gunk in it like JD spoke ** of. I change the Amsoil in my Mustang once a year and aside from the ** Syntec varnish that the Amsoil has not yet cleaned, it is spotless.

This is what I've discovered in the past. It seemed that no matter how often I changed the oil, it discolored within one day, and the crusty, nearly crystaline deposits NEVER, EVER dissolved and came out. I've used every brand of petroleum made, and while some were worse than others at leaving deposits and vanishes, none even came close to the cleaning action of full synthetics.

I've pulled the valve cover on The Beater twice; once when I bought it, once about a month ago, both times to change the gasket. (1st time, it was OEM and leaking badly at 170k, the 2nd, another leak due to incorrect installation the

1st time.) The valve cover was dirty as hell in Feb of last year. After running Mobil One Synthetic since, it's now SHINY CLEAN when I pulled it last month. I was amazed at how well M1 cleaned it up. I can only imagine how clean the rest of the internals are.

I can only tell you to follow your heart.... I have serviced cars for well over 30 years (disclaimer = in my climate zone) and have only spoken from experience. It would be extremely rare to find a motorist that falls within the "normal" duty guidelines. Additionally, I have come across ever so many motorists that fudge on servicing yet remain thoroughly convinced that their routine is way better than anyone elses.

I'm not going anywhere near the Amsoil argument.... by the time their analysis indicates problems, it is usually too late.

I will stand by my statement..... my customers reap the benefit of my knowledge and it is my customers whom I really care about. I can only offer advice borne of experience... you can choose to follow it or ignore it. I prefer to avoid using "department store oil" and will continue to use oils marketed by full range marketeers.

I must ask, why or how you know your engine internals are "spotless"?

Remember, another bennie of synthetic is its ability to flow much better/quicker at low temperatures and during cold starts. And these low temperatures/colds starts is when an engine's bearings, cylinder walls, and rings get the most abuse.

True, but some people forget an oil can't extend the tension of valve springs and timing chains/belts when and engine sees lots of constant high RPMs.

Personally, my intervals are based on the amount of highway driving or short hops the car is subject to. Lots of leasurely highway driving is easy on engine/oil. However, if your commutes are all stop-n-go, or only ten minutes there and ten minutes back (the engine isn't getting fully warmed up), I'd be changing the oil _very_ frequently.

Same here. The last one I pulled the valve covers off at 90,000, it was so clean it looked like there was only a coat of Pam cooking spray on the internals. Mobil 1... gotta love it... Patrick '93 Cobra '83 LTD

By internals I mean what I can see with the removal of the upper and lower intake and the heads. My original cam looked like it was painted with shelac after about five years. My F303 looks like it did when it cam out of the box 4 years ago and that's with harsher treatment than it got from the original owner.

This brings up another pernt. 10-40 Syntec compared to 0-30 Amsoil AND 5-30 Mobil 1, I used all of these and Royal Purple, the latter 3 on cold starts had far less time of lifter noise. Between synthetic and NOT using Fram filters I have zero noise while oil gets pumped to the top of the engine.

I take it you're talking about a goldish coloured sheen all over absolutely everything??? See that all the time with oils that have a high paraffin content.... Quaker Oats (oops, Oil....) is one that I have seen first hand (used to run it all the time when I was a pup)..... Pennzoil too (IIRC) is another one of those "Pennsylvania grade" oils....

Yeah, I about sh*t when the previous owner of this BMW told me that it had a fresh oil change with Pennzoil! First thing I did was change it to Mobil 1. Pennzoil....nasty stuff.

//Mike

1993 BMW 525i of all the old cars

Could've been worse - could've used Quaker State.....

hmm..

Well, I agree that you DEFINITELY don't want to use a Fram filter :)

But all 3 of my 5.0's (2 Explorers, 1 Mustang) have ZERO lifter noise at startup using Motorcraft filters / Valvoline conventional oil...

The only time I have experienced start up lifter noise was when I bought my one explorer and it had a FRAM filter on it...

junked the filter, and away went the problem !

Yes and when I changed to synthetic that stuff started flaking off.