OT: 680HP & 217MPH

Remember back not too long ago when 200 mph top end was the holy grail?

This car is going to be incredible!

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Anyone care to guess what this thing will run in the 1/4?

Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L
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680 HP, how you going to drive that thing in traffic ?

Half peddle is 340 HP

1/4 peddle is 170 HP.............
Reply to
Nomen Lapetos

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:01:08 -0500, "Nomen Lapetos" puked:

That's where the term 'horsepower curve' comes in...

-- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

Reply to
lab~rat >:-)

15.2 and a new set of rear tires.

dwight

Reply to
dwight

Hey Patrick, I got home last night to find the new Hot Rod mag and the cover made me think of you immediately:

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"GLORY DAYS" -- "650HP BLOWN VETTE - 600HP VIPER - 500HP SHELBY"Seriously, these are the golden years. History also stands to repeat itself as the greenhouse gas religion grows in power. Just as fuel costs, emissions regulations, and insurance ratings combined to kill the last golden era, this growing global warming hysteria is making fuel economy regs inevitable. And this time is different. I know in the '70's and '80's we all thought that technology could never overcome the burden of HC, NOx, and CO regulation, and restore real performance. We were wrong, as these modern Vettes, Vipers, and Mustangs now show.

But this time, there is no possible techno fix. It simply takes a lot of fuel and air to produce the heat necessary to produce this kind of power. That means a lot of waste product; perfect combustion means one molecule of CO2 out for every atom of carbon in. Every molecule of gasoline has about 10 atoms of carbon in it. Assuming that all other systems are optimized, the only way to reduce CO2 production is to increase fuel economy.

So to all you 20-somethings: buy a Viper or a Shelby and put it in storage and forget about it. 40 years from now it'll be your retirement fund. Because that's a history that's very likely to repeat as well, once these ground pounders are also legislated out of existence.

180 Out
Reply to
one80out

I bet a V-6 Camry can take it.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

You don't really believe this, do you?

Rob

Reply to
trainfan1

There is no reason an electric, hydrogen etc. powered car can't be made as fast as a gasoline powered one. In fact, there will likely be great advantages to them that current cars can never match. The fact is that internal combustion engines are terribly inefficient and need to be thrown on the scrap heap of automotive history.

I could really go for a four wheel drive electric car with a drive motor in each wheel. Electric motors can be torque monsters. Plus, I can only imagine the performance to be had from a computer controlling all four drive wheels independently and with great precision. I hope I live long enough to be able to drive one of these wondermobiles one day.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

Why not? CFrog got royally spanked today by a Honda Civic.

In rush hour traffic.

Who races in rush hour traffic?

:()

Reply to
dwight

"No reason?" Wow, hard to believe an engineer could write that. Affordability and the existence and availability of the vast resources necessary to build the vehicles and keep them on the road, in the millions of units, come to mind, without a lot of thought, as categorically disabling reasons. These are the same reasons the current fad for ethanol won't pan out. The current fossil fuel and internal combustion technologies are supporting tens, maybe hundreds, of millions of vehicles today. The vastness of that rolling stock I think is not really appreciated by the futurist dreamers. At present it costs about $1,000,000 and a team of PhD's to put and keep one fuel cell vehicle on the road. The barriers are not the invention of new technologies but the adaptation of the existing technologies to the production of multi-millions of units per year.

One thing I always wonder about, when people decry the inefficiencies of the IC engine in favor of electric motors, is how can it be more efficient to generate the electricity with fossil-fuel created heat (coal or fuel oil), boilers, turbines, and generators -- each with its own heat and friction losses -- then to conduct the resulting electricity along heat-generating wiring (more energy losses), then use it to charge a battery (more energy losses), then use that stored electrical energy to power a motor, with more energy losses. Surely this question is susceptible to an engineering calculation. I just wonder how it pencils out, all the engergy losses flowing from all that infrastructure, compared to the self-contained chemical to mechanical to kinetic energy converter we know as the internal combustion car.

Reply to
one80out

Michael Johnson wrote in news:go6dnT2Fp40L12XYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

Bah. Buy one of those cars and drive it now! 40 years from now the fuel to run them will only be available on the black market. ;)

They already are.

To be fair, internal combustion engines certainly have played a role in the evolution of the automobile. Even though we can see beyond them, they are still the mainstay.

Unfortunately, this medium does not permit you to see my tongue firmly wedged in my cheek...

Indeed. Remember that Mini from a few months ago?

They certainly are. My son's RC car is incredible. He's now running a brushless motor in a lightweight 4WD platform, and the thing reaches

40mph (real, not scale) in about 2 seconds.

I think we're on the cusp of this sort of thing. Hybrids are nothing more than a stop-gap; the real internal combustion replacement hasn't appeared in general production yet.

Reply to
Joe

"dwight" wrote in news:eJ- dnZdA1ZKb7mXYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

Civic drivers. obviously.

Reply to
Joe

yes, one reason you don't see any cars with that much HP. Too hard to drive on the street.

Reply to
Nomen Lapetos

Come down to DC at rush hour. It happens all the time. :)

Reply to
Michael Johnson

Dwight,

When are you going back to track to improve that number?

Without a doubt! Awesome power with brakes/handling that rival full- blown race cars of yesteryear.

Sadly though some folks will only realize it after it's gone. Then they'll wondering how/why they ever complained about/criticized 340HP Dodge Chargers/Magnums, WRXs, 300-HP EVOs, 350 & 400 HP GTOs, turbo Miatas, SRT-4s, etc.

The storm clouds are definitely forming and you can hear the thunder in the distance. But luckly, some how, the performance barometer hasn't started to drop... yet.

It's amazing what the engineers have done. From the days when catalytic convertors/emission controls were scorned. V8 engines were labled dinosaurs & "gas guzzlers". "Downsizing" was the buzzword -- remember when all the GM cars got hacked rooflines in '78? Performance meant stickers -- i.e. King Cobra. The real "fast cars" were wheezing 180 HP Z/28s, overweight Trans Ams, what the GM insiders called the World's Fastest Truck" the Vette, and the world's fastest truck [at the time] the 190 HP Lil' Red Express truck, to these current beasts. What a turnaround!

I think there's still lots of room for improvement with what we have

-- valve trains (perhaps electrically operated), better engine/power management, less rolling resistant tires, better/lighter braking systems, smaller/lighter vehicles, more efficient A/C systems, better/ lighter engine cooling systems are some.

I can hear/see it now: "You won't believe it!! That old lady down the street is finally going to sell me her son's '05 400HP/6-speed GTO. It's primo! It has less than 20K on the odometer and it hasn't left her garage since her son died in Iraq years ago. She's moving to a nursing home and doesn't want to deal with the memories the car brings back. I offered her $XXXs and she took it. I can't believe it!! Wait until my car club buddies hear about this.... They will be SOOOOO jealous!!!

Patrick

Reply to
NoOption5L

It has already been done, about 20 years ago, electric motors/generators in each of the 4 hubs. The battery needed a new process to be lighter and store more energy, back then. R+D has been gong on for a long time, since the oil crunch in the late 70's. It is just not cost effective to do this stuff yet.

There is too much shallow/surface knowledge being thrown around, the real engineering was done a while back, the batterys have improved quite a bit.

For fun think about putting in a off the shelf 150 HP electric motor in an existing car. (google is your friend) See how many amps it needs, then how many batteries.

That new electric car Tesla, takes only 6,000 laptop batteries to run it!

Also switch to Citrons (very light weight, small)

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That beauty had a 9 HP engine (?!!)

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Reply to
Nomen Lapetos

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

Actually, it's hard to believe an engineer worth his salt WOULDN'T write that.

I didn't say the transition to alternate power for vehicles would be like flipping a light switch. It will be done over decades. Personally, I think the driving force behind a change will be economics. The replacement technology(ies) will be, and have to be, less expensive to operate. This isn't much of a stretch considering the inefficiency of the internal combustion engine and the efficiency of electric power or fuel cell technology to name just two potential power sources.

Generating electricity (and hydrogen from electrolysis) can be done in multitudes of ways. You can do it right in you own back yard. Right now the capability doesn't exist to do this efficiently, or cheaply, but over two or three decades I expect there will be great advances in technology that will allow it. Just think of where we were from a technology perspective 30-40 years ago relative to today. If we just advance the same relative level over the next 30-40 years I don't see how this can't happen.

You are thinking in terms of current technology and not what the future holds. There are numerous ways to generate electricity and if you can do that you can generate hydrogen. IMO, the only thing currently holding back full blown electric cars is battery technology. If we had affordable batteries that could run for 500 miles per charge and recharge in five minutes 90% of the electric car problem would be solved. The technology of the hybrid cars today are good enough to just plug this type of battery right into them with no hassles. The technology for electric vehicles is farther along than many people realize. Provide these type of batteries at a reasonable cost and economics will do the rest to switch us to electric cars.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

Yes, they are.

Internal combustion engines (ICE) have played a role but just look at how little they have changed in the last 100 years. Even multi-valve technology isn't anything new. In many ways, when it comes to power plants, I am amazed at just how little things have changed. The biggest advancements, IMO, have come relatively recently with the advent of computer control and especially hybrid technologies but that doesn't really change the basic nature of the ICE beyond what was used 100 years ago.

I'm getting a visual in my head right now. ;)

Yeah. It was quite impressive. Now imagine that car with another 20 years of technology behind it.

Wow! If that thing hits a pebble it probably launches into low Earth orbit. I wonder how fast that is relative to its size. Maybe 0-200 in two seconds?!?!

As I replied to 180, the current crop of hybrids are just a good set of batteries from becoming VERY capable electric cars. When a person can buy an electric car and run for 400-500 miles on a charge, can recharge at a service station in five minutes or at home in a few hours it will spell the beginning of the end for gasoline powered cars. I know I will want one. Imagine a car that has nearly zero maintenance, reliability far beyond what we know today and can operate for 500 miles on $5.00 worth of electricity. IMO, they couldn't build them fast enough for the demand.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

Economics will drive the whole switch to alternative fuels. It will either be gasoline is too expensive or electric/hydrogen powered cars will be less expensive to operate, or a combination of the two. IMO, it isn't the technology regarding electric motors and electronics that have held back electric cars. It is the battery technology. While it has improved it is not to the point in needs to be. The problems being faced today regarding batteries will be cracked in the future. It is just a matter of time.

Not nearly enough to tip the scales though.

I'm sure that if an electric car is driven hard it will drain the batteries fast. Just like a gas tank is drained fast when a gasoline powered car is driven hard. Somethings won't change no matter what is powering the vehicle.

I would rather ride a moped. ;)

I wonder what the cost per mile is when running on natural gas.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

Michael Johnson wrote in news:68qdnQViapjQMmXYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

combustion

You're right. The last 50 years have consisted of refinment and not development. Of course things like computer control (as you've said) and transmission technology have helped along the way, but by and large the ICE is the same old, inefficient thing.

I think in another 10 years we'll see cars like that in standard production.

LOL! Actually, it just flips about 2 dozen times and usually lands right side up.

I don't know about scale mph, but it is really incredible how quickly it spools up. Aside from traction, the weak links are the transmission and the axles. He's shown me axles that have been twisted and distorted from repeated lanunches.

controlling

recharge

Exactly. As with real cars, the single biggest factor with the electric RC cars is the limited capacity of the battery pack. The ESC (electronic speed control), servos, and brushless motors are all there now, but the battery technology is still being developed.

The RC cars are simply a smaller version of what's to come with real cars. It's fascinating seeing the developments with the RCs in such a short time. Only a few years ago, battery life in one of those cars was about 5-10 minutes per run. Now they're up to 1/2 hour or so, and they're getting better all the time. It's only a question of time before real cars catches up.

Reply to
Joe

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