OT: 680HP & 217MPH

This is why I refer to greenhouse gas activism as a religion. So much of it is based on faith. This thread reveals one of those articles of faith: that there are viable alternatives to carbon-based energy, with only further R & D standing between us and the widespread consumer availability of those alternatives. You say -- or imply, anyway -- that only R & D stands between us and a battery pack that will deliver the same performance characteristics as a fuel tank, a filling station, and a modern 30 mpg gas engine, i.e., a 500 mile cruising range and a sub-20 minute refueling/recharging time. I am here to say IT CAN'T BE DONE. Just a few of the myriad of problems:

Where are you going to get all the raw materials for all those billions of batteries. Here's a recent article comparing the real environmental footprint of a Prius with a Hummer (and actually gives the edge to the Hummer!):

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This story describes just one nickel mine and the extremeenvironmental degradation it wreaks on its surroundings. Settingaside the environmental impact of repeating that experience by thehundreds or thousands necessary to convert the entire global fleet tobattery power, is there even enough nickel in the ground to meet thedemand? Short supply vs. high demand always equals high prices. Another obstacle: what to do with the spent batteries? We're told that even a little AAA battery requires haz-mat style processing these days. Do you think it will be free to recycle those 1000 lb battery packs? If it's not free, do you think many of them won't just get heaved over the side of the nearest country road?

Another obstacle: where do we get all the extra generating capacity and power stations and transmission lines we'll need? Again, raise the demand without raising the supply, and electricity shoots up in price for everyone. Al Gore's monthly electricity bill will hit FIVE figures!

I could go on, but you get my drift. It just ain't gonna happen.

Reply to
one80out
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I guess the cost of repairs for a twisted axle is also relative to the scale size of the car? Not that it something, 0-40mph in two seconds and you can repair a broken axle for pocket change.

I never thought about the connection between RC cars and full size electric ones. It makes sense. Does that mean we will be able to remote pilot our electric cars of the future?

Reply to
Michael Johnson

Here's something along the lines of what I'm talking about vis-a-vis hi-po cars and CO2 regulation:

"The German government proposed a limit of 130 g/km as average value. The present German emissions average is 172 g/km for new automobiles, though some German automobiles such as the Porsche Carrera emit more than 300 g/km."

The Porsche Carrera is actually a little on the mild side in the current hp wars. But even that car produces 230% of the proposed 130 g/km maximum.

Here's more from the same story as I lifted that quote from:

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But the automobile industry, especially in Germany, opposes binding objectives aimed at reducing emissions in the short term. The German automobile industry rejected a proposal by EU environment commissioner Stavros Dimas in February to set binding reductions of carbon dioxide for new automobiles produced by 2012 to 120 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometre (g/km).

The German government proposed a limit of 130 g/km as average value. The present German emissions average is 172 g/km for new automobiles, though some German automobiles such as the Porsche Carrera emit more than 300 g/km.

"There are so many areas in which we waste energy in a completely senseless way and burden the climate," Dimas told the German Bild am Sonntag newspaper.

"A simple measure in Germany could be a general speed limit on highways," Dimas said. "Speed limits make a lot of sense for many reasons and are completely normal in most EU states. Only in Germany, strangely, is it controversial."

Kurt Beck, leader of the ruling Social Democratic Party, calls speed limits "symbolic politics".

In a television interview, Beck said "the fact that German automobiles are so powerful is part of our international (economic) competitive advantages. Both things (high carbon dioxide emissions and powerful, high-consuming engines) come together."

A study by the German Federal Bureau for the Environment shows that establishing a highway speed limit of 120 km/h would reduce emissions at these highways by nine percent.

The targets announced by EU leaders come without substantive measures to take the steps to meet those targets.

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Source: a March 13 news service article at

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This is how it begins. A 120 kph speed limit (75 mph?) reduces CO2 emissions on any given stretch of Autobahn to 91% of what is happening now with no speed limit. Of course, it also increases Autobahn speeding ticket revenues, and the effect of Autobahn speeding tickets on insurance rates, by many thousands of percents.

To assess the benefits, I whipped out my calculator to figure the effect > >

Reply to
one80out

agreed. just when and how will the shit hit the fan slowly ? Someone will make a lot of money out of this, and have figured out how, we are in the marketing phase now.

Reply to
Nomen Lapetos

We do now...

We even do it with no human assistance...

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Reply to
My Name Is Nobody

Not on a mass scale.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

I wonder how many of our modern day products would have been thought impossible 50 years ago. Developing a battery to the specs I listed isn't the equivalent of inventing warp drive. It is just a matter of time before they are available.

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. This story describes just one nickel mine and the extreme> environmental degradation it wreaks on its surroundings. Setting> aside the environmental impact of repeating that experience by the> hundreds or thousands necessary to convert the entire global fleet to> battery power, is there even enough nickel in the ground to meet the> demand? Short supply vs. high demand always equals high prices. We will get all the raw materials from the same place we have for all our history. It will come from the Earth. It will be mined, milled, fabricated etc. I won't be surprised if one day the landfills we are creating will be mined like any other resource. The Earth is a big place and I doubt we have scratched the surface (pun intended) in retrieving minerals, metals etc. Go back 100 years and someone said the same thing about future resource consumption.

What do we do with all the spent batteries from all the cars ever produced? Some are in the landfill, some are recycled, some are door stops. What about all the spent fluids that an ICE based car produces through its lifetime? Hell, I would take dealing with one set of used batteries verses all the other waste that comes from our current cars year after year. Stop and think about just how little waste an electric car will produce over its lifetime compared to gas powered ones. I bet the electric car is far more environmentally friendly. Plus, I seriously doubt many modern cars end up off the side of a county road. You're thinking of a different era. Recycling vehicles is a profitable, and big, business.

Infrastructure will be upgraded over time as electrical demand increases. How much fuel do we use getting fuel to market? Look at the electricity demand today compared to 50 years ago. I bet someone said we can't upgrade the electrical grid back then too. The good thing about electricity is anyone can generate it. It isn't like sucking oil out of the ground yourself, refining it and putting it in your gas tank. There is solar, wind, geothermal, hydro powered generation systems to name a few. Depending on location, a person might be able to take advantage of one of these to partially generate their own power. Plus, they can even feed the grid if they produce enough juice. Try putting gasoline INTO your local service stations fuel tanks. ;)

I really don't get your drift. You are thinking in terms of today's technology and economics and applying that to the future with little or no changes and/or advancements for either one. Everything is dynamic and constantly changing. Cutting edge technology is always expensive but if there is a large enough market for it then developments almost always occur to bring it to the masses in volume and for a price that allows a profit to be made. We can sit here today and wring our hands about how it is impossible but the history of technological advancement shows just the opposite.

IMO, there are just too many advantages to building a viable electric car. These advantages are as much based in better economics for the consumer as they are in environmental protection. I can't tell you exactly when this migration to electric cars will occur but I am 99.99% sure that it will occur within next 50 years. Some Third World countries may take longer to make the switch.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

Michael Johnson wrote in news:16udnUSNPrJ--WTYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

A pair is roughly $30 so he says. Hardened aluminum or steel. The twisted ones were plastic. Also, I've been corrected - his car will do

0-60 in about 3 seconds.

I can easily see the same technology used in today's RC cars in full size cars. The difference being that you control the real car while sitting in it as opposed to standing on the curb with a radio unit. Obviously, you won't be operating a separate transmitter unit in a real car, but the ergonomically familiar controls. The point is that the principle is the same. We sort of have it now with drive-by-wire.

Reply to
Joe

I had my fling. I'm not chasing numbers. Hell, I had the car set up for NOT the track.

But give me THAT car, and I'd still run a 15.2, 'cause I wouldn't be able to hear the tires spinnin'...and spinnin'...and spinnin'.....

dwight

Reply to
dwight

He needs to take that thing to the drag strip and make some bets. :)

I guess all electric cars are drive by wire. :)

Reply to
Michael Johnson

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:16:40 -0500, "Nomen Lapetos" puked:

Idle is 100 horsepower...

-- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

Reply to
lab~rat >:-)

On 14 Mar 2007 11:36:09 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com puked:

Ethanol...

-- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

Reply to
lab~rat >:-)

On 15 Mar 2007 09:08:54 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com puked:

That's where we cash in our NASA chips. They've been exploring efficient solar cells longer than anyone.

Just an aside, in my neighborhood, a lot of people have golf carts. It's almost become a competition with some to have the fastest with all the gadgets and whatnot. I've been thinking of modifying mine for endurance, do some real research on batteries, speed controllers, motor combinations and whatnot. In addition, the possibility of a solar cell on the roof as a trickle charger.

Supposedly a normal cart can get around 15 miles. I'd like to try to triple that. Ideally, you would never have to plug it back in, but my pockets aren't deep enough for that kind of project...

-- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere?

Reply to
lab~rat >:-)

That's because it's ALWAYS rush hour in DC.... My wife works in Manassas during the week, Some weekends I fly there rather than she flying home. She picks me up at Dulles about 1130 on Thursday night and it's bumper to bumper on 66 back to the apartment. 8 lanes of traffic and that many cars....NO WONDER WE DON'T LIVE THERE "fulltime" LOL

if you owned a civic and "needed" to drive fast, it's do it in rush hour or move west, young man LOL

Seriously, anyone driving that way in crowded traffic ought to be "slowed down" At least they're not driving a "heavy vehicle" that would do damage to a "real car" Hmmmmmm :)

Reply to
news.cox-internet.com

Michael Johnson wrote in news:QbadnfLGNKVzdGTYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

His car is a modified all-purpose buggy. They've got real dragster kits that are awesome.

And here's somthing that' on-topic:

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True...

Reply to
Joe

I live just a few minutes outside of Manassas. I lovingly gave it the name Manasshole years ago. If you think I-66 is bad you should take a trip on I-95. It is an order of magnitude worse than I-66.

There is a migration west happening here. People are moving to the Culpepper area in droves for affordable housing. Trouble is they still work near, or inside, the Beltway.

The good thing about rush hour racing is the participants can rarely attain a speed that will cause life threatening injuries. That is unless the road rage spills over into gunfire. Now that the DC gun ban has been ruled unconstitutional we might get a few more road rage incidents involving fire arms.

Reply to
Michael Johnson

...and it is sold under MSRP! Ford should do the same with the GT500. ;)

Reply to
Michael Johnson

Does that have anything to do with over powering your steering/front tires??

Reply to
WindsorFox

Look in the front and tell me if Hot Rod is a Primedia publication....

Reply to
WindsorFox

Honda Civic owners. Oh, and apparently Malaysians :oP

Reply to
WindsorFox

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