Just had a front-end alignment done. Now please don't think I'm trying to troll the group or start up a long thread about shops needing to make a profit, etc. But the shop performed a service for a quoted price, which in this case was $64.99. When I go to pick up the car, the bill is $71.49. Now I know they don't charge tax on labor in my state, and I'm pretty sure the FEA is all labor. The extra $6.50 is "shop fees". What I want to know is, why didn't they just quote me $71.49 up front? I mean, we could probably get into a whole philosophical thing about whether they can charge for rags, etc. but slipping this extra charge in on the "sly" seems a bit disingenuous to me. It gives me the exact same feeling as a car dealer tacking on a $199 "doc fee" after the price is negotiated in the parking lot.
The law here, last time I read it, says that a shop can exceed an estimate; which is all they gave you up front, anyway; by 10%. So, if you had been given an estimate of $64.99, they could add another $6.50 (rounded to the nearest full number) and still be well within the law. They didn't even need to list it as shop fees... they could have just adjusted the numbers for the service provided.
An estimate is just that. An estimate... not the final price. Some shops are a lot closer than others in their estimates.
This is a really bad subject.... it would take volumes to explain everything there is to say on this and similar subjects. Complex isn't good enough to desribe this...
For many, many years, I was an entrpreneur... not a great businessman.... not even a mediocre businessman.... I made a decent living but never enough to really expand my business.
One of my biggest mistakes was "package" pricing. For example.... The Hankook T24 tire was a very popular tire in the small oilpatch town I lived in at the time. Every shop in town sold (among other brands) Hankooks.... I was quoting 129.95 each and took great pains in explaining that this would be the price at the bottom of the invoice.... this included new valve stems, mounting, balancing, tire tax, GST plus anything else I may have forgotten. The guy down the street sold the same tire.... many, many more of the same tire.... for $119.95 - plus mounting - plus valve stem - plus balancing - plus tire tax - plus GST. His tire came out at over $140. I asked a good customer why he bought his new tires down the street. He replied that my price was too high. I explained, once again, that my price included everything that the guy down the street charged extra for.... he told me that this didn't explain why my price was so high.....
There is no sense in explaining many things.... a customer has a concern with "hes/her baby" and after that, they go blank.... nothing will penetrate that singleminded, blank look. It is more complex that what I can bring to words, consumer psychology (for me) is unfathomable....
Shop supplies is a charge usually based on some percentage of the RO... be it parts... be it labour... or even a combination of the two. We have one government agency that abjectly refuses to pay "shop supplies".... what happens next is a good use of taxpayer dollars..... I make a straight time (I work flat rate) punch and count what I used.... how many rags.... how much spray product... how many nuts/bolts/washers/whatever.
While this may sound petty, I always remark that electrical wire was something I BOUGHT by the roll and GAVE AWAY by the foot. I just finish paying an invoice.... $800 for "hardware" (nuts, bolts, cotter pins, ad infinitum) and some guy wants me to give him a handful of hardware for free....
At the very least, each and everyone of us should be more concerned with the quality of the service, the accuracy of the diagnosis, the timeliness of the repair and if the service experience was pleasant (or at least bearable) or an ordeal. If price is the main motivation for a repair decision, you will be sorely disappointed. Most of the good guys know who they are.... and they know that a it is the car deciding how much money will be spent.
As for your alignment.... the shop "could" have stated the surcharge as a percentage.... you may or may not have listened.... if you had listened, you may have gone down the street to the shop that didn't state the surcharge.... you may have gotten a better alignment or you may have been treated to shoddy workmanship...
Do you feel you were overcarged? If so, why? How could the shop have changed this feeling? What were the reasons you decided to use this shop over other similar shops? Would you return to this shop? And there a whole bunch of other questions to be asked....
Yes, there are a lot of thieves, pretenders and charlatans in this trade.... If they are to f*ck you over, they wont do it with shop supply surcharges... you'll get it in upselling, overselling, shoddy workmanship and inferior parts..... and have a car that is more than likely still broken...
I said this in a related thread, but, again... when he went in they gave him an ESTIMATE of what the cost would be. Estimates are not exact by their very definition.
In California, the Business and Professions Code says any business which provides an estimate is permitted to exceed that estimate by
10%. If you look at what this gentleman was additionally charged, it's about 10% of the estimate.
If they were really a rip off shop, they sure as heck wouldn't have stopped at a mere $6.50. The worst ones for that that I have encountered are the SMOG "specialists". The ones who only do SMOG.
If $6.50 is that big a deal... DO NOT GO to those MAACO type paint shops. Anyone recall Earl "I'll paint any car for $29.95" Schibe? By the time you got out the door that $29.95 had risen to over $600.
Somethng else to consider: The shop didnt "FIND" any other problems and fix them on the assumption you'd want them to do it, because the situation was 'dangerous'
Jim, I agree with everything you say. I understand that the shop needs to charge me for the service they're providing.
The point of my post was that, if they knew perfectly well that there would be a $6.50 "shop fees" added to my bill, why didn't they quote me $71.49 in the first place? This business of slipping in a little extra on the bill just seems shady.
Spike, where did you read 'estimate' in John's thread? In fact, he specifically said "service for a quoted price". In that sense, the shop stuck it to him for those few $$.
Well now you know. Just like taxes most shops do not include all the little extras in the quoted price. I don't know why. Perhaps because if they did as the one poster mentioned about all in pricing folks would go to the place that doesn't mention it up front.
Now ask yourself this; If they had told you about the $6.50 shop fee would you have taken the car someplace else?
What 'dangerous' problem do you repair for $6.95 and then lable "shop fees"? When you add something to the bill you have to justify it before I'm going to pay it. "Shop Fees" is not a justification. What that a tube of gasket sealer, or was it a new bag of Community because you ran out of coffee in the middle of my job. Of course there is also a dependancy for the customer to actually ask what it was for.
Not necessarily. This place was near my work so it was highly convenient and was worth a few more dollars for that reason (in fact, their quoted price of $64.99 was already a bit higher than some others in town). I most likely would have had no problem with $71.49. And I would have been a MUCH happier customer at the end of the day, if they had quoted 71.49 and then charged 71.49. Slipping it in at the end is what irks me.
I guess it just makes me look at the bigger picture of how business is conducted these days. The same thing with our local cable company; they NEVER advertise their monthly rate for cable TV. The only rate they advertise is the "introductory rate, first 6 months." It might be nice to know what the rate will go up to in month 7. But you can't find it anywhere in the marketing.
The game now is to play with terminology and semantics. Have you seen the thing now with dial-up internet companies that advertise "unlimited access?" A lot of them are now claiming that that really means you can dial-up and connect an unlimited number of times, and in fact your total connection time is limited to about 10 hours a day.
"JohnV@nn" wrote in news:1131731481.188987.127260 @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
I couldn't even get it when I called. They kept the song-and-dance going for the introductory offer stuff. Bottom line: They couldn't tell me their basic pricing structure, so I blew them off. My roof antenna is working just fine.
"unlimited
It's getting so you need a lawyer just to purchase a service...
That's not the point I was trying to make... I was TRYING to point out that they didnt find and make any unneeded repairs.
Just guessing, but the shop MIGHT have run into a few problems that extended the time required. And the catch-all is the 'shop fee'.
The consumer has already proven their gullibilty with TV advertised goods, where there's no shelf-stocking, no distribution costs to speak of and no other reason to justify S&H costs anywhere near what they charge.
I must have been tired and missed that, or else it's the fact that I have never been to a shop which did a job without going the estimate route. In fact, I never knew there was such an animal.
I can even go to some place like a Jiffy Lube type place where they tell you 'this is the cost for the Premium Service', but up on the wall somewhere I'll find a price list with an asterisk which says 'these are estimates for a normal service, however a problem may be discovered which increases cost'... like 'your car needs a special air filter', etc.
I do still hold with the opinion that if a shop was intending to rip the customers off, it would be for a heck of a lot more than $6.50. Yes, it might pay for the monthly coffee fund or whatever, but it's really small spuds for some of the gouging I have seen caught. Shops installing used parts, or not even replacing parts at all but claiming they did. Shops committing highway robbery against people who are not local, who happen to be female, etc.
Each person has to make up their own mind how much is too much. Even on a fixed retirement and disability income... I waste more that $6.50 on nothing stuff on a regular basis. Heck, I've paid that much for a cup of coffee in an international airport bar.
Indeed. My last experience was at Sears, where I bought a set of new tires for both the truck and the van. I got the sheets for both vehicles with the "final price", and they confirmed that was indeed my final cost.
Out of habit, I always ask if the price at the bottom is the "out the door" price. If they say yes, then I reconfirm that it is agreed that I will pay not one penny more than what's on that paper. If they balk, I ask again for the firm "out the door" price. If they can't give it to me, I walk. Of course, if it's agreed that there may be other work for extra cost involved, I make it clear that I need to give approval for said extras. I also make it clear that if they charge a penny above the agreed-upon "out the door" price, I will not pay it.
claiming
Agreed. However, it sounded to me like they're feeling the waters to see what they can get away with. They started with the 'shop fee' thing. Just a baseless opinion though..
True. But as has already been said, it's the principle.
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