Hi there. I plan on getting my Mustang coupe repainted in the near future. In terms of finding a good body shop to do this I have no real clue what to look for.
I have talked to several people at car shows and have got some advice such as:
"Make sure the place uses a eurythane based paint instead of base coat then clear coat. Eurythane is more scratch resistant."
"Make sure the place wet sands or you will get orange peeling"
"Make sure the place uses at least three coats of paint."
Above are just some of the things I have heard. I do not know if they are right or not.
What I am asking for is advice for looking for a good paint shop. What sort of questions should I ask and what sort of answers should I get?
Almost all paint systems for cars are Urethane today. You basically have 2 choices in paint systems. Direct gloss or base coat/clear coat. People often refer to direct gloss as Urethane wrongfully as the clear used on bc/cc is urethane also..With direct gloss, you don't have clear, the only paint you put on the car is the colored urethane. Personally, I prefer this especially for older cars as it mimics the older enamels and provides deeper colors. It also posishes to a wicked shine. Ask to see the cars the shop did. Most speciality shops will do the direct gloss most collision repair are not used to it.
Orange peeling is a fact of life in painting cars. It is caused by gravity. Even brand new cars have them (except some BMW that are painted on a rotisserie believe it or not...). There are many ways of minimizing it, high quality spray equipment, proper temperature reducers, retarders and experience.... However, the only way to totally eliminate it is to wet sand and polish. A good shop should be able to produce an acceptable finish without the wet sanding step. Naturally, you can buy the luxury of a mirror like job with a wet sand/polish step. You will have to pay more to get the show finish of the polishing step. Its all down to $$$
You have to follow the system. More is not always better. Al l depends what you are putting on your car. Too thick and you'll get olvent popping with urethanes...Those are old folk tales when paint systems were lacquer based...
I get asked this question often and I never know how to answer it...There is only one way and that's evaluating a shop's reputation by referal. Go take a look at cars they did. Pay attention to the shop itself. What does it look like? It should be relatively well organized and hopefully be full of jobs like the ones you want to give him. Don't take your car to a collision specialist, they are not used to doing complete paint jobs...take it to a shop that specializes in restoring and painting older cars....
I would take the car to a few reputable places and see what they say and quote especially what they have to say about the state of the car. The paint finish is only as good as what is underneath. Good preparation is the key. Body work, rust, adjustments and long sessions of blocking are all essential to a good looking car. Shooting paint is actually the easy part. Paint jobs are not made equal, usually the more money you put in the better the job. It's a time consuming job, it's just labor. That's why they vary in price from Maaco scratch and shoot...$300.00 to top of the line $10,000.00...
Make sure you have a good understanding of what is included and what is not, a good shop should make that clear. Bad shops will keep the understanding grey so they can hit you with extras. Make sure you know in advance what he will do if he discovers some surprise (more $$$) while doing the job. Sometimes it's surprizing what you find under the paint of those old cars...
Thank you Serge. I will keep that in mind when I check out the paint shops. Other than just cosmetic appearance does the direct gloss also offer better scratch resistance or greater durability?
Not realy, it's the same chemistry as the clear except that it is colored, there are alot of folk tales about those paints. I guess that's because generally a complete paint job with them is done by more specialized shops and cost much $$$, so people think it's magic or something like that. When scratched, the inside of the scratch is the same color as the car (unless it goes through to the undercoat...), not white like a clear coat would be so it polishes better. As hardness and scratch resistance is concerned it's the same chemistry as the clear, so as hard as a clear coat is. It's actually difficult to see the difference in some colors like black or dark colors. I recently painted my truck's tailgate with direct gloss while the rest of the truck is bc/cc and you can't tell it appart realy...just that it has less orange peel as I polished it after painting...
i'm getting ready to paint my 66 and i like the old way it's alot of work but worth it hand sand the hole car to the metal do your patch work if any with metal not bondo do some lead work and get rid of all the seams and blemishes prime it sand it prime it agien sand it the key is several thin coats of your bace colour wet sanding between coats and several coats of lacquer on top now days if you take your car to get painted the just spray one or two thick coats and don't give it the proper time to set up you end up with dull colour, lemon peal and paint that chips they also use cheap clear coat and only one thin coat use lacquer or good clear coat like dupont and spray more than one coat if it gets keyed or somthing you can buff it out rather than needing a new paint job
Oh man, those ways are long gone. I would not touch lacquer anymore even if someone paid me alot to do it. They just don't last as well as urethanes and who says they have to put cheep clear on the car? I only use PPG top of the line clears (or House of Color...these are the two I know...) and the thing will last almost forever if well maintained....
These products are chemically different (and much better) than lacquers. The high solids paints go on thicker, flow better, run less, are harder, are more chemically stable and durable (won't be affected so much by polution, tree sap, bugs etc...) and can be polished to a wicked shine. Why would anyone use a lacquer anymore except for a cheep, fast out the door job?
Also, body filler is fine if its not slapped on too thick. Filling small imperfections with lead is so time consuming and I don't see why one would do this anymore, especially in light of all the newer polyester based products. They are soo good. You can even buy them in a sprayable form as a high build sanding primer...
You need a little recycling I guess. Try the new techniques, I guarantee you won't go back. ...
I would say that Serge knows what he is talking about. Hey, what do you do for a living?
Anyways, Urethanes are popular for repaints but in original finishes are often used on plastic parts (bumpers, etc) as they are more flexible and softer than the baked finishes that the manufacuters use.
I agree with not using the lacquers, haven't been used on new cars in quite a while. By definition a lacquer is something that can be dissolved in the same solvent that it was in when it was new, so it never really cures, just lets the solvent evaporate to form a film.
Some specialty shops use the baked finishes but you obviously have to part the car out to do this as your seats would melt :) Well maybe not melt, but be very toasty. The baked finishes are very hard but that is not what gives you shine. And a softer finish can sometimes be durable to a point where it absorbs a small impact.
Actually if you build up a thick enough clear coat, that can give you a pretty nice shine, but it does scratch white though.
I like to think of a clear coat as a protecting coat. But what you usually get in conjunction is a thinner color or base coat, and if you use a colored primer, an even thinner base coat.
Also, the clear coat can be applied to a wet color coat or a dry one. Usually in repaint shops, it is applied to a dry one.
What you want is a clean and smooth surface as an imperfection will reflect light at an off angle and break the look of your surface (including dust under your clear coat).
Actually, if you go into some restaurants and they have the coated tables, they use epoxy which is the highest gloss available I think. Usually not too good for outside use though as it yellows in the sun as do most urethanes (not all).
Off topic a bit, but most of the money you spend on a paint job is labor as the amount of paint to cover a car does not cost $3,000. It is the masking, sanding, painting, overhead, and skill that you are buying.
You could always spend that money to buy the equipment, do it yourself, and still have the equipment left over afterwards.
Good luck, Arjay
"Serge" wrote in news:8228b.3617$ snipped-for-privacy@news20.bellglobal.com:
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