SAE Horsepower Standards To Change

Sounds like semantics to me. What does "the power it actually delivers" mean, anyway? Who's complaining? Are those folks who bought '01 Cobras still whining?

Anyway, "the power it actually delivers" lies somewhere between an unadorned engine hooked up to an engine dyno with no air cleaner, an electric water pump, and open headers, like you see tested in the hot rod mags, to an Expedition loaded with a family of four and towing a travel trailer at 9,000 ft through the Rockies. It's really just a question of where you draw the line. If rated hp is just a comparison tool, then it doesn't matter what procedure you use, just so long as everybody uses the same one, and corrects for variations in the equipment, ambient temp, barometric pressure, etc. Ironically, you could just go back to the '60's gross hp concept if all you want to know is how engine X compares to engine Y. Or if you want to know what the cars "actually deliver," then you could skip the dyno altogether and just put the cars on the track for an SS quarter mile or half mile and calculate from trap speed. But either of these would be too easy, I guess.

180 Out

Probably, as well as owners of the new Rams with the Hemi. 345HP my butt...

I'm seeing the Chevy trucks feeding the Ram's lunch at the rags. Must be 345 ponies:)

Al

And I can take lunch from both and smack them till I get the milk money, mines only rated at 305. The new Hemi doesn't have a half a stroke on the 340CI Nissan...

Interesting. But a car like the 'Vette will *still* be underrated in order to sell them better so we still won't really know what the cars do until they hit some dyno's. This standard just tightens up the minimum that the maker can stamp on the car.

SAE needs to revise J1349 JUN90 to include procedures for appropriately correcting absolute manifold pressure systems (wastegates) and chemical supercharging (N2O). That will go a long way to fixing most of the lying that goes on about specific output :).

Dan

2003 Cobra convertible With some stuff and things

I think it would be neat so see a real world test of the big three's trucks. All the tests I see are so bogus. Ever read the tests in a dirt bike magazine? We need them to test trucks:)

Some guys out here had a bulldozer on a trailer and they timed a Powerstroke Ford, a Dodge and a FTR Isuzu all pulling it up a long hill. The Isuzu ran away with it. I think they are about 200 horsepower. The Dodge beat the Ford, but not by much. This was a few years back. They couldn't find anyone willing to try with a Chevy. The only problem is this was no where near an accurate test of anything except these particular trucks. I'd like to see trucks with the same exact load in the bed, say 2,000 pounds, accelerate, stop and handle. Then add a heavy trailer and do some more testing.

Al

If you want the best trailer puller there is only one choice.

The F-250, with the gas V-10 and towing a 10,800-pound trailer, was more than two truck lengths ahead of the Chevy Silverado 2500 at the end of the quarter-mile. The Dodge Ram 2500 Hem was more than five back.

Similar results came when we ran the F-350 dually, powered by the upgraded Power Stroke, against the Ram with the high-output Cummins and the Duramax-powered GMC. The trucks were towing identical 13,400-pound trailers.

The Ford, although slow out of the gate, reigned in the Dodge and Chevy within a few hundred yards. It continued to pull away through the end of the ¼-mile, besting the Dodge Cummins by two truck lengths and the Chevy by a good eight. The Ford Power Stroke and five-speed automatic really shine once the load gets rolling.

Nonsense. When it comes to towing, the Cummins will eat the gas Ford for breakfast.

And the guys dissing the Hemi apparently aren't doing their homework.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

"351CJ" wrote in news:mDdIe.12662$Bx5.1381@trnddc09:

Thanks for proving my point. A 10 cylinder Ford vs. a Hemi. Some fair test! How about an older 10 cylinder Dodge and a 5.4L Ford? Will a new 10 cylinder Ford out pull a new 8.1L Chevy?

Al

In 2005 the under powered Hemi is Dodges only Gas choice, if you don't like the comparison, that is Dodges problem not mine. And yes the 2005 6.8 liter

3 valve per cylinder V-10 Ford makes more horsepower and torque than the 2005 8.1 liter V-8 Chevy.

Reading comprehension not your strong point, Joe?

The was no comparison of the Dodge Diesel against the Ford Gas engine. The two comparisons were between the big 3's

1. gas engines and then their
2. diesel engines

The 2005 Cummins will NOT eat the 2005 Power Stroke Ford Diesel for breakfast! As a matter of fact, the only thing it does eat is the Fords exhaust...

I've yet to find a Cummins that can out pull or out run my 2005 power stroke diesel. The Cummins is an outstanding industrial engine, but it has nothing performance wise over Ford (International) and GM's (Isuzu) current pickup diesel engine offerings. I'll gladly drag race you in your Cummins powered pickup empty or pulling a trailer up a hill, with my 2005 Power Stroke Diesel Ford, and set you straight on your nonsense versus reality confusion.

As for the so called new Hemi, as much as you might be caught up in the name nostalgia, the fact remains the new small block "Hemi" is undersized and under powered for the 3/4-ton/1-ton truck application, as is the 5.4 liter Ford. It's not my fault the Germans currently running Daimler Chrysler can't understand that they need a gas engine with more torque for this application.

"351CJ" wrote in news:1zjIe.44790$S%5.23268@trnddc06:

LOL! I'd talk if I were you, Bucky.

If you scroll down a bit, you'll see that my comment was about towing, which was in response to the claim about the "best trailer puller there is". After your brilliant comments, I know it's a stretch for you to comprehend that, so no offense taken.

Well, considering that I never compared the Cummins to the Power Stroke, you might want to apply your first comment to yourself.

Guess you didn't look beyond your back yard.

Sorry, I'm not interested in drag racing you in the least. And I don't have a Cummins-powered pickup. Where'd you get the idea I did?

The Hemi is a wonderful engine, and it's got both more horsepower and torque than any gas Triton.

Now go back to your daydream, and have a nice day.

"351CJ" wrote in news:oEiIe.32954$Tk6.26487@trnddc02:

If you want power and torque, pay attention:

dismissed.

As for towing, you've got to be joking if you're not talking diesels.

Joe Calypso Green '93 Mustang LX hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Yeah, right. Here's some home work for you. Look and see if the new Hemi is a *real* hemi. I know for a fact that my "305" HP V8 is faster and stronger.

Careflu with that Chevy, you know, their frame is a little on the fragile side compared to the real trucks... :oP

"WindsorFox[SS]" wrote in news:NUyIe.615$ah4.267@lakeread05:

WF, stop whining. It's annoying.

Now, I don't know if I would go *that* far. Compare the current Hemi to what was available in the past. from say the mid ot early 70's up through the late 80's ot early 90's. All the major mfgs have a pretty abundant amount of power and torque comparatively. After the last Dodge truck with an available 383, 440 or 426 Wedge rolled off the line and before the diesels got going, what were the power averages at that point??

Joe,

Run down to the nearest Dodge dealer and look up the towing specs for the SRT-10. Let us know what you find.

Al

"Big Al" wrote in news:xGzIe.132$ snipped-for-privacy@news.uswest.net:

Al, please _read_ before responding.

Of course the SRT-10 isn't a tow vehicle, and I never claimed it was. I mentioned the SRT-10 simply because its horsepower and torque run rings around all the other trucks you guys have been touting.

And I'll repeat: You've got to be joking if you consider any serious towing with a gas engine.