Stephen Vivarttas was a Great Kid

I don't remember much in the way of garbage. It's not the fault of anyone in this group that his family is grieving. They have my sympathy.

A rose by any other name... He pulled an idiotic stunt, that he knew full well was illegal, very dangerous and he should NOT have been doing. It's is NOT the same as the kid who pulls out in front of a loaded semi not realizing it's too close, or thinking erroneously he can pull it off. He purposely went way over the speed limit in a place he shouldn't have, this was NOT an "accident." He knew full well he should have been at a race track and certainly knew full well he should have worn a seat belt even if he took it off afterwards.

No I certainly have not.

Great attitude. Do you tell your children to go ahead and street race, and not to worry about that stupid seat belt because when it's your time you'll go anyway? What a remarkably stupid position. Perhaps you can tell the mother and sister of the 10 yo killed a couple of years ago that the dumbass who smashed into the minivan was a really great kid who was just so full of life...

No, that is the proper place and proper way to do it. If what's his face had done so, we would not even be having this conversation.

Incorrect. I would suggest you look at the statistics of the number of people killed racing at a track, with safety gear and inspections as opposed to those killed on the street. If what's his face had been at the track he would have been wearing his seat belt and he would not have hit a curb.

No he did not. Dale Earnhardt was NOT wearing the HANS device as he should have been. Said device was made mandatory after his death. There was also talk of unapproved mods by Earnhardt that caused other equipment failure. Earnhardt died from a basilar skull fracture because his helmet was not secured, not a broken neck because he was ejected from the car. He was also going 160 mph.

I suggest you learn about Kyle Busch's recent Talladega wreck a couple weeks ago... Rolled and flipped for ever and walked way in one piece. Walked away from a wreck that made Earnhardt's look like a cake walk. see here:

here: Now try to tell us safety equipment doesn't work. No street racing is NOT the same as being at a track.

I know enough to know he was an idiot for racing on a public street and doing so without a restraint. His family and friends have nothing to do with that.

One of my duties before I retired from the fire service was as a rescue tech.... It was my duty to go out and scrape people like this young man up off the road... a job made even harder by trying to treat the reamains with dignity and respect.....

With all the advice, the advertisements, the statistics.... people will throw caution to the wind.... and all it takes is one heartbeat to alter peoples lives forever...

A moment of foolish? Indeed, and look at the cost of this "rebellion"....

No, I didn't know Stephen... but neither will I offer a moment of silence because this event was AVOIDABLE.... There is no way to candy coat this...

Do I understand how his family feels? Yes... and I will not intrude on their grief - as long as it isn't thrust under my nose. He wasn't the first person that ever paid dearly for stupidity and, sadly, he will not be the last.....

Now... how about the men and women that had to deal with the aftermath of this mistake? Each and every fatality MVA that we attend removes one more little bit of "US"... Do we feel badly that they have been presented with a task that few will take care of for us? So that we wont have to injure our own sensibilities and face the reality that life is so easily wasted?

Do you know who I really feel empathy for? It is those innocent victims... those that have nothing to do with these types of incidents yet are inextricably involved.

Some might have said "Oh, he's just sowing a few wild oats...."....... Others would have said "Cut that out, man, your gonna kill somebody..."

FWIW, I am currently involved with our local RCMP inspecting vehicles involved in fatality MVAs.... Some of the latest include a minivan driven by a mother and carrying her 5 children. Her foolish mistake put her and her remaining two children in intensive care. Another involved another minivan... 10 teenagers and a grad party. A foolish mistake put the van out of control on a bridge and one young man was ejected out the back window.... it took the divers nearly 7 hours to recover the body from the river.

In my world, foolish mistakes don't kill people.... callous disregard for safety and human life do.

Seems to me the blame can be placed squarely on the parents after reading this drivel. He was illegally street-racing, he was unbelted, he was stupid. Thankfully, he took no innocent victims with him. And, no I don't drink and drive and never have. It wasn't his time, he scheduled the appointment with his stupidity combined with indulgence and lack of parental control.

--------- Laurie S. Thunder Snake #7

He was no Angel...well he is now...

"Laurie S." wrote in news:46414198$0$3580$ snipped-for-privacy@news.nationwide.net:

Bingo! Hits the nail squarely on the head.

This is as stupid a statement as anything else in this thread. Blame the parents? Why? Were they sitting in the car with the kid, insisting that he drink, not buckle his seat belt and that he race illegally? No, I think not.

Anyone who thinks parents can control their kids 24 hours a day -- or that ANYONE can control ANYONE 24 hours a day, short of incarceration -- is stupid. Ideally, parents do the best they can to instill values and teach correct behavior, but the idea that they can control their kids when they're not with them is ludicrous. If a kid alone in a car (or not alone, for that matter) decides to do something stupid, he or she is going to do it, and at that point the kid is way beyond CONTROL by parents or anyone else.

It's fashionable these days to blame the parents any time a kid does something wrong. It's also midguided and stupid. Put the blame where it belongs -- on the kid.

Paul

That can be argued as well.

I totally disagree. The parents had 18 years to teach their son right and wrong. They failed in their prime responsiblity to him. They have an equal share in the blame, right along with his stupidity. I am not talking about controlling him, I am talking about teaching him and setting good examples. It is apparent that they did not.

-------------- Laurie S. Thunder Snake #7

As clairvoyant as you are, KNOWING as you do that the parents screwed up and didn't teach the kid right from wrong, why didn't you see this coming and prevent it? Surely that would have been within your powers.

My parents knew right from wrong and did their best to pass that knowledge on to me. Did that make me some kind of robot, incapable of doing wrong once I was on my own? Of course not. I knew right from wrong, but being human, as most of us are, sometimes I made the CHOICE to do wrong. Was that my parents' fault? Of course not. They did what they could and after that it was UP TO ME. You know what else? When I screwed up, I didn't whine that it was my parents' fault. That's such a cheap cop-out. What about you? Did you ever do anything wrong? If so, did you blame your parents? How did that work out for you?

Seriously, do you know this kid's parents personally, and have you known them for the kid's entire life, and do you KNOW for a fact that they failed to teach him not to drink and drive and race in the streets? If you can't answer yes to every one of those questions, then SHUT UP and stop blaming people for other people's actions. The kid is the one who screwed up. He's to blame, unless his parents that day handed him the car keys and a 12-pack and somehow forced him to drink and drive and race.

I know there are bad parents, and parents who don't do a good enough job teaching their kids. But until you have some concrete proof that THESE parents failed their kid in THIS way, you really need to stop blaming them for their son's mistakes. He made his own decisions, and he paid for them.

How many kids do you have? Have they ever done anything wrong? Did you stand up and acknowledge that YOU were to blame for THEIR mistakes? If so, what do you think that taught them about responsibility?

Sheesh, idiot, read the original post on this thread. That says it all about the parents.

It doesn't say a damn thing to support your allegation that when a kid screws up, it's the parents' fault.

I said it's a shared blame due to the kid's stupidity and poor parenting. Parents should be responsible for teaching their children what is right and wrong, and therein lies the blame. I wonder how often they drove recklessly and failed to buckle up. Children learn a lot by observing. I see it every day around me as children emulate the habits of their parents, and then pass it on the next generation. Kids can screw up pretty good on their own, and even more so when the parents have failed in their primary responsiblity to them. It doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes a responsible parent.

"Laurie S." wrote in news:46424353$0$3578$ snipped-for-privacy@news.nationwide.net:

The kid's mother was also quoted in the original article as admitting she wasn't able to keep her son under control (parapharsed). In so many words, she said he had to be himself and she couldn't keep him in line. Basically an excuse to let the kid do what he wanted regardless of the consequences. Hard lesson to learn.

Did I miss something? Who the hell is/was Stephen Vivarttas and WTF should I care???

...and this would have what to do with mustangs....?!?

Wabbitslayer

01 GT vert

"Paul" wrote in news:Rnq0i.2179$zj3.99 @newssvr23.news.prodigy.net:

The mother herself admitted in so many words that she couldn't control her son.

From the original article: "I was very involved in my son's life, but I also had to let him be a teenager," said Cathy Vivarttas, 44, beside her other son, Michael, 10. "And look at what it got me. He was the kind of kid that if you tried to control him, he would rebel."

Ain't nobody's fault. Have we forgotten about fate? You know, sheer luck? I grew up in a hotbed of street racing. I had my first race the very first time I was allowed to drive a car by myself at age 16. And I beat my opponent. And I evaded the police in my very first pursuit a few months later in the same car. The thrill and adrenaline overrode the teachings of very strict parents and 13 years of private school education. I made my choice to race. Hell, I used to get street light action driving to and from my Police Science classes. I kept a Won/Loss sheet in the car with me, fer crissakes.

I was lucky. That's all. My parents did their job and that was it. As soon as I got my license I was responsible for my own actions. Close calls aplenty, but I'm still here. I guess I'm the yahoo that made it. So far.

maybe....

Sorry, it was an article I posted some time ago (subject: Another moment of silence).

And I purposely clipped out last names from the article, because I thought it was the point of the article, not the identities, that made the story.

AND WHAT IT HAS TO DO WITH MUSTANGS, Mr. Wabbit, is that this tool was racing his "souped up NEON" against a Mustang that had spanked him previously.

His car was not ready and, apparently, neither was he. The tool didn't even have the brains to buckle up before racing, ended up clipping the curb and killing himself.

dwight

Which means the situation was already out of control when he was 9 to 11 years old.