OK, so here's the official stuff for 2005:
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
That's correct. SVT will have no "product" in '05. In fact, it won't have a "product" through most of '06 either. This was made clear by Ford/SVT in several different venues :). The '07 Mustang SVT Cobra will be revealed at the NY Auto Show that starts on March 25th, 2005, although there is supposed to be a press day on the 23rd, I believe. Target Job 1 is mid '06 for MY '07.
snipped-for-privacy@nuail.com wrote in news:1110383378.429253.26280 @l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
What a shame. Why in the world is Ford holding up the show until MY '07? Are they that crippled that they couldn't get it in showrooms for '06? And there's not one single sentence about it on their web site. Sounds to me like Ford doesn't want to commit to anything regarding the Cobra.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 01:55:31 GMT, Joe wrote something wonderfully witty:
What I don't understand is why no new Lightening based on the new F-150 either. Doesn't make much sense to leave that area to Roush as well.
to weigh as much as it does... now with the RAM SRT10 out... Ford does not want a half-assed performance truck on the market.
Well, the very first sentence on that site is: "As the Ford Special Vehicle Team closes the door on 2004 model-year sales, it now turns its full attention to the work of bringing to market an all-new generation of high-performance Ford vehicles, beginning with the next SVT Mustang Cobra." :).
Granted, it's not details. However, I just got my SVT Enthusiast and Hua Thai-Tang provides an editorial that will pretty much make him a liar if an S197 SVT Mustang doesn't make it to market. Furthermore, the magazine explicitly states it will provide full coverage of the SVT Mustang Cobra reveal in NY in it's next issue.
Ford is monolithic enough to stomp on their best marketing and make their own mouth-pieces look foolish, no doubt. I dunno, though, I am optomistic :).
As for crippled, yeah, that might be kind of fair in some lights. Here's what I know. The Ford GT project was a monster. A real nasty one. At about the same time that it was creating GT, SVT was putting together the SVT Focus, the SVT Lightning on the new F-150 chassis, plus the S197 SVT Mustang. They got behind mainly because of the effort involved in Job 1 on the GT and the Focus PLUS pushing the federal certification of the modified F-150 and Mustang chassis. Added to that the F-150 tranny they planned to use wasn't holding up to the desired specific output and, while they do have options for that, they were in the position of having to re-cert the system late in the process.
For the Mustang, the test mules have been on the road for more than two years. But there were at least three, and maybe four, different possible configurations for the power plant and there was a lot of effort in finding a replacement IRS. The new system is more complicated and I know that the powertrain control guys had a ton to do to get it all working with certain configurations (Note: at the last SEMA there were five supercharger options for the '05 Mustang GT, and I know for a fact that not one kit was actually ready for market because at that time tuning was still a problem :) ). It appears to me, as well, that Ford wanted mules with several hundred thousand miles on them to back up some of the decisions. They still didn't decide on the power plant until last December (2004).
My opinion, pure speculation based on conversations with knowledgable folks and no real data, is that Ford bit off a huge chunk with the GT that was far, far bigger than they really want to admit. But it was mandated that it succeed so it did...and everything else got slipped to do it.
On 10 Mar 2005 08:23:58 -0800, "Jack VR4" wrote something wonderfully witty:
Well they don't have to have a half-assed performance truck on the market if they do it right. I just bought an `05 F-150 SXT regular cab with flareside bed and I am here to tell ya they did a wonderful job on this new generation of truck. It is the smoothest riding and quietest pickup I've ever owned, and I've always owned a Truck of one type or another for that past 3 decades. Hell they dam near got the empty bed bunny-hop out of it on concrete roads with expansion joints, which we unfortunately have a lot of in my area.
I've started creating my own SVT (Steve Vehicles Team) out of it. I'm working from the outside in (appearance then performance) which is backwards from my normal approach, but it is a Harley Hauler so poser points are important :)
Mostly using Roush parts & equipment from the Tejon model they built.
snipped-for-privacy@nuail.com wrote in news:1110473667.724232.18340 @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
generation
Mustang
Right. But that's all they say. It's obvious that they haven't even updated the page for months.
Does it say when it'll actually get there?
OK, so somebody will do a photo shoot at the show and write up an article. It'll be interesting to see what's in it.
I try, but it's hard when Ford's cried wolf as much as they have. First, it was the Cobra's missing horsepower. Then the Lightning got yanked. Now no Cobra for several years.
desired
complicated
All in all, it adds up to poor planning and execution. Other makers, notably DC, have done more with less.
knowledgable
I agree with you, but that's what's disappointing. Ford could be putting out some great vehicles if they'd get their in-house act together more. But based on their track record, they've got a lot to do.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
I bet Ford is delaying the release of the Cobra for two years to give Mustang sales a boost just as interest in the car starts to fade some. This is what they did with the release of the Bullit, Mach etc. Since the car has received good press and sales are strong there is really no reason to release another model that would steal some of the thunder from the GT. In a couple years they will need the Cobra to give the Mustang lineup an injection of adrenaline.
"Michael Johnson, PE" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:
Could be, but (a) I don't think the Mustang will need any help with sales, and (b) I think the Cobra will sell regardless, as it's got its own hardcore audience. Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see what transpires down the road apiece...
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:06:21 GMT, Joe wrote something wonderfully witty:
Could be anybodies guess unless some here works for Ford in the strategic arena. Now my guess is that they will continue on in the vein of other cars within the Mustang linage. Will the Cobra come back? Yeah without a doubt. Whether or not it will follow previous incarnations is anybodies guess, but for some reason I doubt it.
Maybe they will bring out a new niche model like the Mach 1 or maybe they will pick another specialty version of the Mustang. Perhaps a Boss or maybe a GT-350 using the 5.4 instead of the 4.6. I really do think they will look to the first generation of Mustangs for their inspiration given the current body style has gone retro. I really do think a GT-350 would fit right in with the current body style.
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 01:55:31 GMT, Joe puked:
If the GTs are selling as well as it sounds, there's no reason to up the ante at this point. What would they be competing with anyway?
Of course it's just a rumor, but there's talk of a re-release of the Camaro around '06-'07, so then it would make sense to bring the guns to the table.
-- lab~rat >:-) The less you care, the more it doesn't matter.
I'm just guessing as to Ford's thinking on the Cobra. Most auto makers delay the hot rod versions of their cars by several months to a few years. DC is doing it with the 300C, Chevy with the Z06 (damn I love that car!), Ford with the Cobra etc. I think it's driven more by marketing than a result of production issues.
The Cobra enthusiasts will always be there and ready to buy. My guess is Ford is looking to get press from the Cobra and lure some potential buyers into the dealership that then opt for the less expensive GT or base model. I'm just glad they are still making noise about a new Cobra considering Ford's financial situation. :)
ZombyWoof wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
wrote
Let's hope so. A re-chipped '05 with a few extra surprises would be very cool. In the meantime, I'm waiting to see the convertibles on the street. I'll bet some show up down here within days after they're released.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
lab~rat wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
puked:
believe.
It's not a question of competition, it's a question of SVT's purpose on the planet. If they're not producing cars, then what are they doing? Just thinking about it?
Competition amongst makers is always good for us consumers. I just hope Ford steps up to the plate sooner than later.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
"Michael Johnson, PE" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:
Agreed, except that Ford's the only maker that doesn't have a release date.
I don't see that Ford's making the noise - it's coming from other sources. Ford's not "officially" pushing the new Cobra nearly enough, which leads me to believe that they're reserving their commitment to it.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
I think they are too. The sad fact is that even though Ford has given us some very nice performing cars/trucks via SVT's efforts it really hasn't done anything to improve the companies overall bottom line. I just hope the bean counters don't start to get a toe hold in product development and take them back to mediocre performance cars like the pre '99 SN95 Mustangs.
Because they don't build these cars to demand. They build them as collectables. And unless they can get many times what it cost them to build, they won't even be a blip on ford's bottom line.
The cars are more or less advertising when built and sold like this, and not much more. If a cobra isn't going sell a large number of 6 cylinder base cars then ford will drop it IMO. If ford built these cars to demand maybe they could add to the bottom line. I don't really want to bid for a cobra, which is nothing more than the top level mustang configuration to satisify some dealer's greed. It's not some supercar that they can hand build only 12 a year. It's a somewhat improved version of a MASS PRODUCED CAR. 30 years from now we'll know if it's a collectable or not, I'm not buying a car to put in shrink wrap for 30 years anyway.
I think we are both saying the same thing. Unfortunately the SVT vehicles have not helped Ford sell cars. IMO, this gives more strength to the bean counters argument (assuming there is one) to ax the entire SVT concept (and the Cobra along with it). If that happens then Ford's performance cars will suffer, IMHO, of course. The existence of SVT and its influence on the DEW Mustang design team is likely the biggest reason that the current Mustang performs so well. My fear is the only type of performance cars Ford might be interested in developing in the future will be the mega dollar (i.e. highly profitable) supercars like the Ford GT. This could also lead to the eventual termination of the Mustang. Chevy did it to the Camaro and Ford could do it to the Mustang.
"Michael Johnson, PE" wrote in news:uZWdnR8VorAlS6zfRVn- snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:
I don't think it's marketing so much. I think it's one of two things. 1.) They just need the time to work out what the car is going to be. or 2) SVT's role is going to be changing, in the sense that everything in the future coming out of SVT will wear a Shelby badge. If that ends up being the case, I would think the Cobra will cost well over 40k. In return you'd get a street legal 500hp road racer. Think Shelby GT-R. Then there will be a shelby badged truck, and at least another more affordable car. The span between the factory GT and the Shelby could be covered by Mach 1's, Boss, etc.. From what I've read SVT wasn't going to limit the price to under 40k. That only makes sense with a Shelby badged SCCA race car. It fits a niche, and doesn't have to compete in the market head to head with much else in the way of American cars.
Agreed.
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