What Ford should do about the Vette

RichA opined in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Or Nothing...

Or maybe find a way to reduce the price of the GR1

They could bracket the vette and everyone would be happy.

There's a limited market

Stop building instant collectables and start building performance cars of the vette class to market demand.

RichA wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Would that be competition for the base C6 or the Z06?

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

If it were possible to build a modern car that was true to the 427 Shelby Cobra's roots -- 400+ hp in a 2200 lb package, at about twice the price of a contemporary sedan ($6K then, $60K now), I'd say go for it. Is that possible, while including all the things the $60K market requires today (zero rattles, zero leaks, 75 dB cruising)? No way. Even the '05 Z06, with a Z06-only aluminum frame, weighs 3200 lbs.

Bottom line is it's too late for Ford to climb into the Vette market without either falling on its face or losing baskets of money, or both.

180 Out TS 28

What is the base C6 going to be? The current 400hp model? They should ignore it and concentrate on making a Vette killer at a lower price point. Handling might be a problem.

-Rich

RichA wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Yes - it's the 400/400 6.0 liter LS2.

180's right IMO - At this point, Ford can't possibly come up with anything to seriously compete with the Corvette.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

What about using the '03 390/390 Roots-blown 32v 4.6 DOHC in a dropped, tightened up new Mustang with a T56 and an active stability control system? It wouldn't have to out outrun it on the top end; I mean, 8th grade stat geeks might bicker, but what it if could run the Vette on a strip and a road course, be cheaper, and more user-friendly too boot? I think Ford has a few options outside the exotic GT to compete with the Vette for less with the Mustang platform. "They have the technology"...

And the PR, Mustangs outrunning Vettes again...

Why?

The $50-60K (USD) domestic market is limited in size. Why would ford want to compete in a market that has limited size and limted sales opportunity, especially given the Vette's dominance. Would you be willing or able to fork over the 60k to buy a GR-1/super-cobra/whatever?

I think Ford is better off staying in their own market niche. Base GT, Cobra, Lightning, etc. High-end performance is great, but how can one use it these days on the street? I can barely open up my 97 cobra in my locale without encountering gobs of traffic. How much performance does one need in a street car? If I want to run 11's, I'll buy a car to do that...

Chris

RichA wrote:

A cost reduced, built for production version of GT.

How can you say that when aftermarket firms do it all the time? Saleen, for one.

-Rich

RichA wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

So why hasn't Ford done it?

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

In so many words, a stripper? Or a Cobra?

Ford won't build a stripper because there's not enough market for one. It wouldn't compete with the Corvette anyway - the 'Vette has some very nice toys in it.

As for the Cobra (or Cobra-type), Ford's already nixed it.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Wound Up wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@swbell.net:

...but not the will or the incentive.

Now that's an interesting sidebar. What years did Mustangs outrun Corvettes? I don't know, I'm asking.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

I agree, stick with what has worked. 20K v6 models for mass production, sell a lot of GT's and thow in some Cobra's that have performance close or equal to a vette like the 03/04's did. I mean, how fun is it to drive a 35K cobra that can keep up with a 50k vette ? Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying

Lots of fun until you come to a corner. :)

Howard

89 5.0 LX vert

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:17:26 -0600, "Curtis Metzler" wrote something wonderfully witty:

After missing out on the start of this thread and reading some of the replies it became obvious to me that ya`all for get that Chevy & Ford at one time did compete in what is the Corvette's arena. With Ford handing GM the Corvette's ass in a bag. How could ya all forget about the two seater T-Bird? The original, not the current reconstituted one.

When Ford's new two-seater was introduced as a '55 model it became an immediate success. Whereas Chevrolet sold only 700 1955 Corvettes, even though it now had the new Chevy overhead valve V-8, Ford sold

16,155 Thunderbirds. That is 23 times the amount of Corvettes sold for the math impaired.

In fact the dismal Corvette sales had General Motors on the verge of discontinuing it, but the introduction of the T-bird convinced GM to keep it. So it was actually Ford that saved the Corvette.

A performance comparison with the '55 Corvette V-8 found the T-bird slower. Road & Track magazine (7/55) reported that the Corvette, in spite of its 2-speed "Powerglide" automatic, could sprint to 96 km/h (60 mph) in a quick 8.7 seconds, and reach a top speed of 188 km/h (116.9 mph). R&T (3/55) reported that the automatic Thunderbird took

9.5 seconds to reach 96 (60), and could only manage 177 km/h (110.1 mph).

For 1957 the basic theme remained, but again with some changes. A new combination grille and bumper adorned the front end, and the trunk was stretched five inches, allowing the spare tire to migrate back inside, although the Continental mounting was still optional. In keeping with Detroit's fin craze, little canted blades sprouted from each rear fender of the '57 T-bird.

The bigger news was under the hood, however. The 5.1 litre V-8 could now be had with an optional Paxton-McCulloch, belt-driven centrifugal supercharger, bringing horsepower to 300. Can you say "Wowza"? How many of those babies you still around, even at high-end car shows?

Power for the base 4.8 litre engine was up also to 212, and the normally aspirated 5.1 developed 245, although a few modified versions put out more. The supercharged 'Bird would prove to be very rare, with only 208 being produced.

Although it had a good year, selling 21,380 '57 Thunderbirds, and still out-selling the Corvette, this would be the last of the Ford factory two-seaters until it's recent rebirth. Ford Division's austere general manager, Robert McNamara, one of the post-World War II "Whiz Kids," decided there was more profit in four-passenger Thunderbirds. In so doing it left the true sports car field to the Corvette and the rest as they say is history.

McNamara would be proved correct dollar wise. The larger "personal luxury" Thunderbird did earn far more money for Ford than the Corvette would for GM. But two-seater T-bird aficionados never forgave him.

**Disclaimer (portions of the above are from the net)

Ya`all gotta remember you history. Chevy never fought against the Mustang with the Vette, nor did Ford ever plan to fight the Vette with the Mustang. That was a different battle and a different history lesson altogether.

ZombyWoof wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I didn't forget, but I didn't think that Ford "handed GM the Corvette's ass in a bag", either.

Exactly. The big point here is that the T-Bird evolved into a "larger personal luxury" car (as noted above), while the Corvette moved more in the sports car vein. Except for the few early years, Ford never made a vehicle to compete with the Corvette.

Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 01:48:37 GMT, " snipped-for-privacy@here.com" wrote something wonderfully witty:

True enough Chris. Additionally, until now with the departure of the F-Bodies GM has left that market wide-open to Ford. The GTO come-back was poorly executed and really hasn't gone anywhere. Same thing with Chevy's SSR's both still have `04's on the lots. SSR's are going for

32K and I've seen GTO's as low as 26K. Ford also has the entire RWD large sedan market sewed up. Yeah Chrysler has brought out the 300c, but that baby is peeking at damn near 40K decently equipped. I can get a comparable Crown Vic or Grand Marquis for half of that. Yeah OK they don't have the Hemi. BFD. And let's not forget that the F-150 has owned it's market space for what two decades?

I think Ford knows what it is doing. And it isn't playing catch-up.