How many are raced and as was stated by someone else, how many have a price point of $25,000?
I dont think LS drivers are dropping the clutch that often and not only does the V8 LS have less torque, IIRC it's also behind a torque converter as the V8 LS only comes with an automatic. The '03/'04 Cobra halfshafts are larger than past Cobra shafts. Although they most likely will hold up to the GT's torque, they cost much more than the axles in the GT.
How many Mustang owners need the high speed cornering stability the IRS may provide? I'm sure they represent less than 0.01% of all Mustang owners also.
I've had many V8 Live axle Mustangs in the past; '78, '83, '89, '98, and '00, the factory IRS in my new Cobra is not much of an improvement and had nothing to do with my purchase decision. My next Mustang was going to be a Roush Stage 3, Live axle and all, but for the $$ the Cobra was a better deal.
How hard is it to put an IRS into a FWD vehicle. As a matter of fact, IRS in a FWD vehicle allows more room in the passenger compartment. This is more likely the reasoning behind the IRS in smaller, cheaper vehicles.
Per unit cost, the Mustang GT is a $25,000 car. the Corvette is a $40,000 car.
They can be and are every day. I'd put my yearly salary on a bet that the Live axle in a Roush Stage 3 will out handle my Cobras stock IRS in any conditions and on any road.
IRS also lowers unsprung weight which also helps alot in the handling department. Civic put's the $ into IRS for passenger space, BMW and Ferrari, well they dont cost $25,000.
Ford changed the way they sell the Mustang to save manufacturing costs by offering standard or premium packages and offering few options. I don't disagree the IRS could easily be made an option, but I don't think there would be enough orders made by the buying public to justify the expense the option would cause along the assembly line.
I think you would feel a noticable difference if you drove a small car with RWD. It's a shame there isn't a small car like the 240SX for sale anymore. The 1993 240SX convertible we had (until our son totalled it) handled and braked like a dream and keep in mind this was the vert model. With RWD the car had great balance.
Unfortunately the Mustang doesn't have that good of steering for a rear drive car. I hope the new model gives us a big improvement.
That wasn't a good first RWD choice. The Mustang II wasn't much more than a reskinned Pinto.
One thing that comes to mind when comparing Japanese cars to the Mustang is that Nissan, Toyota, Mazda etc. have tried to dig into the Pony car market for years. The Supra, RX-7, 300ZX among others have all come and gone. Granted the 350Z is in Nissan's lineup now but for how long and how well will it sell? These cars were refined with IRS and many other things but in the end it didn't matter to the American public. If any one of these cars had a third the sales figures of the Mustang they would still be here.
The point I'm trying to make is that Mustang buyers seem to like buying an affordable car that delivers a decent level of performance with a ton of future hp/handling/braking potential for those hard core gear heads with aftermarket parts catalogs. This is why you can't compare a Mustang to a Honda/Nissan/Toyota stereotypical econobox.
Once you move away from the Mustang American makers have IRS on most other models, including RWD ones. The Mustang is now a unique automobile in todays American market. It really has no competitors. I'm happy to see Ford step up and give the car a new chassis and many other improvements instead of just extending the Fox platform indefinitely. After all, they didn't have to worry about us going to a Chevy dealer and buying a new Camaro instead of a Stang.
I think it's a shame that car is no longer available because it just looked so damn good! I don't remember the convertible, I but LOVED the hatchback model! I really liked the interior including the sloping console - reminded me of the 300ZX. I never realized they were RWD cars.
The mid-80s to early-90s were my favorite years for Japanese cars. The
300ZX, 240SX, RX-7, 1st and 2nd gen Integras (remember the popup headlights?), wedge-shaped sporty Accords and Preludes (both with pop-ups), MR2 turbo.
Man, I HATE the 3rd gen Integra (the most popular and longest running model)! I've detested Accords and Preludes since '92(?)! The 350Z will never look as good to me as the 300ZX, the RX-8 is just plain ugly, and the Acura RSX is just plain (better then being fugly like the Integra, though). Not to mention my disgust with the current Civic (especially the Si model - EX coupe isn't bad).
WTF happened?!?!?!
I feel the same way about some domestics. I LOVED the early 90s plain-jane Firebirds (not so much the T/A [sorry Knight Rider fans] and especially not the Firehawk). Even the last Camaro went out with a bad face lift. Never HATED a Mustang model, just kind of indifferent to a few of them. I like the older boxy looking 5.0L LX model the best, I guess. Except for the new one, of course.
Back to the subject, it's interesting to me that the 240SX was RWD.
Me too, though I'm buying one regardless. I don't remember being so wowed by a car since my buddy's 300ZX turbo! I love this car with the same passion that I hate the last Integra and current Civic Si. That's pretty strong.
I know . It was the best $800.00 I ever spent, though. ;-)
It was my only car that I almost riced out (wrecked beyond repair before I could tack on some King Cobra stuff I bought at a junk yard). What the hell was Ithinking?!?! ;-)
Most people don't know they are. If you ever get a chance to drive one then do it. I think you will be quite impressed with them. They still demand a high price for a car that hasn't been sold here since 1997. The sad thing is that Nissan still sells this car in Japan as the Silva (Silvia?) with a turbocharge four cylinder. If Nissan would sell the same car here they would sell the crap out of them. I would like to take a '95-'97 240SX and put a twin screw blower on it. Now that would be a butt kicking ride.
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote in news:vnzPb.116187$8H.272831@attbi_s03:
Nonsense. Way back in the early days of FWD, the original Caravans and K-cars had a straight rear axle.
Image = Marketing
They're different - apples and oranges. Within each category there are good and bad. Hondas feel good, but Tempos and Topazes feel bad. Mustangs feel good, but a Buick Roadmaster feels bad.
Doesn't matter. In this discussion, good and bad are subjective terms.
The cars we're talking about here are all compromises. That's what manufacturing is all about. Of course, there are the extremes (Kia and Maserati just to name two), but every car in between is a compromise.
Every Mustang is a compromise that suffers from a price tag ceiling. That's the whole concept of the Mustang - affordable performance. How do you think the "affordable" comes into the picture? Cost-cutting and compromises.
Poor IRS is the early Volkswagen Beetle and Corvair. Good IRS is the later Corvair and the Corvette. Poor IRS is deadly. Good IRS is unbeatable.
Nah, Philly's just venting. He'll be back to normal after a visit or two to AHPBBFM.
Joe Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
*sigh* and if you go back far enough cars had solid FRONT axles. But silly me, I thought we were dicussing 2004-5 model year!
And selling service at the dealership.
A tempo feels like what it is, a mid 80s toaster on wheels. Hmm... same with civics of the era.
That's why I called it a brand troll.
Tell it to the guy that started this...
Did you even *BOTHER* to read what I wrote? The new '05 platform is designed from the get-go to have an IRS. It won't have the restrictive design limits of the SN95 unit. Plain and simple. That's what I am refering to, nothing more, nothing less.
** From Car & Driver's write up of the '05 Mustang:
**** "Although the other DEW vehicles have all-independent suspensions, the
** 2005 Mustang goes without. That's mainly to keep down costs, says
** Thai-Tang. It's also partly because the majority of Mustang owners
** don't know or care what kind of rear suspension they have, he says,
** and partly to serve street racers and quarter-milers who love a live
** axle's simplicity and cheap interchangeability."
**** Detroit will never learn, will it? Go cheap, hold your customers in
** contempt, make the quick buck, lose the market.
OH yeah. Hasn't anyone heard of 'KISS?' - Keep it simple, stupid! I'm one of those apathetic buyers who actually DOES care about their suspension (I've replaced the whole damn thing twice), and actually likes the simplicity and brute strength of a live axle setup. Lower costs are icing on the cake.
True, but I wonder does your plastic econobox ('83 V6) weigh more or less than my plastic econobox? ;-)
Speaking of weight, the current Civic Si weighs in at 2782 lbs. according to Edmunds. 2782 lbs! For reference, that's heavier than a 1990 Mustang LX 2.3L coupe (2761 lbs.).
It's getting out of hand! Honda either needs to put the Civic on a diet or give it a small V6. Or at least a bigger torqueir(?) 4.
Something screwy with Edmunds (edmunds.com) I think. It shows a 1990 Mustang LX V8 coupe at only 2761 lbs. Is this right??? That's lighter than the current Civic Si 5-speed (2782 lbs)! This car must freggin' FLY! Even the hatchback at 2827 lbs. seems awfully light!
Hey, for your information, it's a *metal* econobox! And at about 16 MPG currently (needs a tuneup and some carb work), very little or no emphasis on the "econo" part! :)
If I were to get rid of all the junk that I carry around, it'd weigh in under 2800 lbs.
That reminds me; it's January... Probably time to take my two-man H2O tube out of the trunk.
Rode in one of those once, and I was surprised at how roomy it felt. Good head and legroom.
Fortunately for us, a lot of that weight nowadays (in cars at least) is going towards safety enhancements like stronger passenger compartment "cages."
It is getting a little crazy, though: Look at the weight of a new T-bird, and that's only a two-seater!
Yeah, if IRS is ever an option on anything less than a Cobra, it'll probably be _only_ available in a package with a moon roof, Mach1000, and heated seats, or some other *completely unrelated* crap.
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