Re: Asian brands dominate reliability list; Ford Motor is best domestic

I remember my 75 Ford Elite was built in Ontario, Canada.

me wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I would like to see a cite for that crazy assumption!!! All profits from foreign companies goes out of the country and are not taxed in the US. How is that at all good for us regardless of the place of putting them together. So they employ some workers, it is still a very bad idea to buy foreign anything if we want a strong US. The previous generation knew this and had import laws that reflected that, but the dumbed down school system has a ingnorant result that no longer lets them think, and multi nationl corps now have great sway over congress and so you now get the results. Dumb electorate, greedy and dumb congress not being held accountable, and so it goes.

Alot of it is the stupid cafe and safty standard foisted on us by the protect us from ourselves dummies. That sent the design costs threw the roof. "I" am sick of living in a nanny stated socalist country. If the people want it let the market take care of it, get the heck out of my affairs. KB

Likely with most of its parts shipped in from the U.S. under the Auto Pact that the WTO killed.

Every Japanese person I've ever known in Japan has plainly stated that they would purchase any car other than Korean. I don't think that's based on technical reasons though. European and US cars are considered luxury cars, understandably. Even a Jeep Cherokee costs more than a Mitsubishi Montero over there. Of course back then there weren't any Chinese cars so maybe that's changed.

And the Koreans feel the same way about Japanese cars. I've been to Korea many times, and have never seen a Japanese car there (though I did see some Japanese trucks).

So when I buy a Sony TV the money gets sent to the Japanese. Which is fine since I own Sony shares. Many Americans, Europeans, people all over the world do. Same thing applies to Auto makers. Japanese auto workers get paid about the same as US workers. The big difference is in their medical insurance benefits which are covered nationally over there whereas here the US Automaker has to pay it, thereby reducing their cost competitiveness. Comparing US auto workers and Japanese auto workers wages is silly in todays world where Ford bulds in Mexico and Toyota builds in China. These economically third world nations blow everybody out of the water in terms of labor costs.

A perfect example of one of the USA's industries, once strong here, now gone.

You missed my point. I meant, how much do the US workers in Toyota's US plants make, compaired to a US worker in a Domestic US plant?

Factory worker wage at Toyota's Kentucky plant averages $27/hour. Factory worker wage for GM is $28/hour. Also, there are no union dues at the Toyota factory. The actual pay for Toyota workers averaged $30/hour because they get bonuses.

However Toyota workers don't have the high level or retiree benefits enjoyed by the UAW workers.

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" But also read "" which paints a less than flattering picture of Toyota. Personally I think that the Toyota workers should unionize. They're basically freeloading off the UAW contracts with the big 3. If the big 3 go bankrupt, then Toyota won't be forced to match the UAW pay.

You better search the Commerce Department cite if you believe that crap. That was BS that was put out by Toyota last year. What they did NOT tell you was there figures did not include employee deductions for some of their family benefits and their contributions to there 401k pension plans, it the wanted a pension LOL

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" > which paints a less than flattering picture of Toyota.>

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" > which paints a less than flattering picture of Toyota.>

I think one of the commenter's from the Autoblog link made a very good point. What would happen to the wages, (or even the jobs themselves) of Toyota plant workers in the USA if the Domestics were to shut down? Toyota pays there employees such a nice wage so they don't try to unionize (even though they are trying anyways). However, if the Big 3 were gone, I highly doubt the $27 an hour wage would remain.

Yes, that's why I think the Toyota workers (and Honda, Mercedes, Subaru, Hyundai, etc.) workers, should unionize, _now_, before any of the big 3 shut down.

Toyota pays so well to keep the unions out. Pretty soon that's not going to be a concern if the union factories are all gone. Or maybe the vehicle manufacturers about to be essentially nationalized like the banks to save them.

Interesting that Toyota can pay more than GM, Ford, or Chrysler and still make $2000 even on small cars. You can't attribute all of that to the cost of pensions or retiree health care.

Bashing unions is a popular sport among Republicans, but if not for the unions, there'd be no middle class today.

However as much as the short term pain would be if one or more of the big 3 went under, I don't think it's up to the government to bail them out. They got themselves into this mess.

I would rather see the government help out the auto industry rather then the damned banks any day.

But what is "helping out" going to consist of?

GM and Ford could have decided years ago to build high quality small and mid-size vehicles, but they didn't want to because trucks and SUVs were so much more profitable. So Toyota and Honda filled the gap with Accords, Civics, Camrys and Corollas.

We've been hearing the "we've caught up with Toyota and Honda" mantra from Detroit for probably ten years now, but the long term dependability ratings don't show that to be the case, it's just marketing-speak. The fact remains that you'd need to buy two Fords or Chevys to last as long as one Toyota or Honda, and consumers understand this. When they price new vehicles, they factor in the cost of an extended warranty for the Big 3 vehicle, something that is usually a very bad gamble on a Toyota or Honda.

If we bail them out with our money then we need to have major strings attached to that money, including milestones in terms of fuel economy and quality, as well as requirements that they move all manufacturing back to the U.S., rather than sending it to Mexico.

US workers trained under the "Japanese" method of quality management (taught to them by an American, Dr. Demming... a man whose ideas on continuously improving quality the US auto makers rejected, again and again, in favor of building as cheaply as possible).

Probably, but the cars don't hit the same quality level. Why pay more just because the company started out on US soil vs. Japanese?

This is another classic example of typical Toyota-nutjob BS. GM and Ford built the trucks and SUV's because that is what people *wanted*. People were buying them in droves. And take a good look at a Toyota from the early

90's and one from today. What happened? They kept getting bigger, with bigger engines. Why? People wanted it.

Give me a break. Wow, you are so brainwashed it isn't even funny. I might just as well be talking to a wall, it would be much smarter then you are. You sound like the type of person who reads Consumer Reports, and buys what they tell you to. Get a brain, and use it. The quality of a 2008 GM is just as good, if not better then a 2008 Toyota. Extended warranty my ass...

What, GM producing more fuel efficient vehicles then all other manufactures isn't enough for you?

*That* is the only thing you and I seem to agree on. The rest of what you have said is pure bullshit.

To keep a good nation under your feet, and a roof over your head. Oh, and I have heard a lot of BS from Toyota nutjobs, but telling me a Toyota cost less then a similar equipped GM is really pushing it. Oh, and one last thing: The Chevy Silverado is years ahead of any truck Toyota could even hope to produce. There is a reason it is the #2 selling vehicle, even though gas prices were at $4+.

As far as I'm concerned, Canada ain't "domestic." It's a foreign country.

--Vic

Not by much...