My 94 Pathfinder was getting some work done at the dealer today, and they informed me that there is some rust through in the frame around the rear wheel wells. There are a few holes (about the size of a quarter), some generally thin/peeling areas, and some places where it looks like if you poked hard you might break through. (I got to take a good long, close look while it was on the lift)
Their main concern was that it could prevent me from getting an inspection sticker (MA), but I'm am also concerned about the feasibility of keeping this car long term with a problem like this. Other than that, there is very little rust, body or frame.
Can this be fixed at a weld shop or autobody shop? If so, is it huge $$$. The mechanic at the dealer said that's a fairly common place for Pathy's of that era to rust, so I'm wondering if anyone out there has dealt with this. I hate to lose the car because of it... Any suggestions? I'm planning on hitting the local body shops and would appriciate any advise from you folks! Thanks!
Most inspection places wouldn't catch this, but it is a major safety issue if the frame could fail. It can be welded, I would guess $500 +/- a couple hundred without seeing it.
I agree with Jim that it can be welded. I once had a '78 Corolla that I affectionately called the Rust-o-la, among other terms of endearment. When I was rounding a corner, the steering wheel returned as usual but
90 degrees off. When I went around another corner in a different direction, the wheel returned but 90 degrees off the other way. Turns out one of the bolts on the steering box had broken through a rusted frame member. I took it to a welding shop; the guy welded on a piece of sheet about 4" by 6". Problem solved for $150 cash back in 1990, and the car lasted another 3 years before passing away.
Any welder worth his salt(pun intended)can weld that up for you. I rebuilt a frame on an old Triumph Herald back in the late 70's that was so bad, the damn doors would open when you hit a bump because the frame flexed so bad. I ended up welding 30 some feet of angle iron using a Lincoln stick welder. Today I use a Miller Challenger with an Argon/CO2 mix gas and an alloy wire. I make alot of custom exhaust systems, some roll cages and other odds and ends.
Thanks again everyone for the info. Another related question: If I don't get this done before my next inspection (2 months from now) and do get failed for it, will they give me the standard grace period to get it fixed (like if it was a tail light, emmissions, etc), or would this constitute some sort of catastophic failure and preclude me from EVER getting a sticker? The placement of the hole is such that I think it will get noticed if the inspector looks at the tire treads (which they are suppose to do). This might vary by state I imagine - I'm in Massachusetts.
Most likely not since frame rot is a severe hazard. Cost shouldn't be too bad depending on several factors. On my '95 XE I discovered this past fall that there was an area rusted through on the right rear area of the frame, just ahead of the wheel.
A trip to a Mennonite owned welding shop had the fix done PROPERLY. That's why I love going there, they CARE about their work and after everything cools, they spray everything with a special undercoating, even inside the frame rails through the mulitple access holes, to make sure the problem doesn't rear it's head again. Four hours and about $35 later I was able to pick up the truck. :-)
Don't wait, the longer you let it go the more it will eat. That's why it's called `cancer' in the shop.
$35!! For 4 hours work!!! Gotta love those Mennonites! I went to college in Lancaster, PA and got aquainted with a few of them way back then - wonderful people.
I don't suppose he's in the New England area by chance? It would be worth a few hours drive to get it fixed right AND cheap.
Oh well - There are some weld shops in my town, not to mention the boat yards where they seem to do lots of welding work on the old steel fishing boats. Based on the 'cancer' issue and safety I'm going go ahead and start hitting the shops ASAP instead of a few months from now. Thanks!
No problem glad to have helped. Oh my yes, the weld shop I recommend is simply WONDERFUL! I should have clarified though, he didn't work on it for 4 hours, it just took that long between the time I dropped it off and it was ready to go. He had to let the area cool down before applying the undercoat. That's what really took time, parking it off to the side and waiting. Awesome job though.
Unfortunately no, they're definitely not close to you but here's their contact info should anyone else in the general area need an HONEST and AWESOME job done:
Lehman's Welding Service
2722 Edenville Road Chambersburg, PA 17201 (717) 263-9736
And looking at the bill, I was off a bit. :-) The total came to $31.80, $1.80 of which was PA sales tax. So $30 for weld time, steel plates and undercoat. :-) They truly appreciate their customers and are SUPER nice people. When I worked for Nissan, that's where we sent just about all of our customers for rust repair of their older vehicles. They also run a separate small engine/mower repair business in the other section of their building.
I made the rounds on Friday afternoon - here's the outcome if anyone is interested:
First I went to a mechanic I know and trust - not a body/welder guy though. He was not optimistic about repairablity, but said it would pass inspection. He recommended I take it to a place called J@L. Hey, that's where my step-brother-in-law works as a machinist! I orinally thought they didn't do this kind of thing. Any way, stopped by there and my step-bro-in-law introduced me to one of their welders.
We went over the whole thing, and he said for $200 he could plasma cut and weld on a piece to go over the arched part of frame around rear axel on both sides. (that's 2 pieces, one for each side, $200 total for both sides
- the right side is worse than the left, but they are both in need). Sounds good to me, cheaper than a car payment - but...
I should get another few years out of the car before other (less servicable) areas of the frame start weakening. I was really hoping to get 5-10 more years from this car, but it looks like "frame cancer" is going to take it before then.
If I keep the car and go for this, it leads to another delema, which I will post separately.... basically I've got 55k miles on my current timing belt. According to the manual that came from the car, it's 105,000 mile life expectancy. Dealer recommends 60k mile interval for this year...
94 seems to be an ambiguous/transitional year for pathfinder timing belts... I'll post separately and call "Timing Belt interval - 94 pathfinder" Hopefully Wil and some of the others who have helped before will offer info on this, too! Thanks - John
I posted this under your other header as well. :-)
Only too happy to help. :-) For the areas that are bad and the damage that is done, that sounds like a very good price.
For the timing belt, yes the 94-95's service manual `says' that they can go 105,000 miles. There was a design change of the cam and crank gears in relation to how the tooth on the belt was shaped or something along that line that supposedly led to increased life of the belt.
Therein lies the dilemma. :-)
The belt is still made of the same materials as previous model years and is still VERY susceptible to failure due to age rather than mileage.
Remember the old thing of every 4 years/40,000 miles replacing your belts/hoses/etc.? Then they went to 3 years/30,000 miles on some vehicles due to ozone deterioration and other issues causing coolant hoses to rot from the inside out (not to mention increased underhood temperatures, lack of airflow in cramped quarters, etc.). Well the same thing applies to the timing belt.
That said, I changed the timing belt, timing belt tensioner, water pump (you're already there...), thermostat, all coolant hoses, drive belts, etc. when I bought my '95 XE used with 81,000 miles on it. When I removed that upper timing belt cover, I couldn't believe the amount of slack that was in that belt! By all rights? It should've slipped under a good load and stripped some teeth off the belt and destroyed some valves. So long story short, it was definitely an investment in the future of my engine. :-)
Since I worked for Nissan and had been doing these for going on 4 years straight, it was a piece of cake. :-) To do everything (including the full tune-up and bleeding the coolant) took me a full Saturday but I'm SUPER picky about my vehicle and could easily have saved an hour or 2 by not cleaning everything (t-belt covers, radiator housing, took the radiator down to the car wash and blasted the junk out of the fins, etc.) and shining it up while I had it off. I wanted that new vehicle visual appeal. :-) A tip if you do it yourself, while the radiator is out, use your compressed air and blast out the fins of the condensor as well (blast from the radiator side so you're in effect pushing the garbage back out the same direction it went in), you'll never have a better chance.
Good luck, and that Pathfinder will last you for YEARS after you're done. :-)
Thanks again, Wil. I'm gonna go ahead w/ the $200 frame repair. I've got some NAPA Permatex 765-1671 rust treatment that I might hit the rest of the frame with to try to slow down the rust elsewhere on the frame. Don't know if it will help, but it's quick and cheap and can't hurt. Might try using a wd-40 straw to see if I can shoot some inside the frame to. That stuff seemed to work well on the two little areas of rust I had in the body at bottom corners of rear doors.
If all goes well, will probably go ahead with the timing belt too. Got a few more little issues that I'll post in a couple of days when I get a chance....
You're welcome. :-) Permatex, great stuff. Advance Auto Parts also has a rust covertor spray (I forget the name, maybe Duplicolor but I'm not sure, it's in the paint section...) that I used on mine as well. I spent a warm day with a paint scraper, wire brush, 2 cans of the rust convertor and after it had dried, with a can of truck bed liner spray. The liner spray costs more than regular undercoat (I think it was $7-$8 a can) but man does it ever last! :-) Rock hard. I did the entire frame rail on both sides, front to back, even removing both rear tires so I could really get in there with the scraper and wire brush to remove any possible `bubbly' areas. A tip would be to get 2 cans of the bed liner spray as well, then you could shoot more of it into the predrilled holes in the frame. I'll remember next fall. :-)
Have you tried POR products? You may want to see what they have to offer. I would suggest you go on-line or check in Hemmings Motor News and request a catalog from one of the POR distributors near you. I use their rust products on my antique cars. Good luck mister 880
Just a follow up/closure in case anyone's following this:
A welder at my step-bro-in-law's machine shop did a fantasic job of welding some reinforcements over the frame at the wheel wells. He also continued though on the inside and bottom of the frame, most of the way to the end, with some long L-channel shaped pieces (I think that's what you'd call it?). He also welded a reinforcement on one of places where the frame attaches to the body (which was rotting also) They painted the new parts with some thick black stuff. Looks great, should last for years. So much for the doom and gloom picture some of the mechanics around here were painting! Thanks for your advice everyone - it saved my truck, for only $250!
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.