This topic never fails to generate long threads, and I don't think many people will change their minds. I'm no expert - I just pay my money and take my choice. But these guys think synthetic is better than dino in nearly every way - especially in cold weather:
I tried MaxLife once but didn't see any changes one way or the other. I like Valvoline, so I may have used it a second time but after that the expense just seemed too much. As the saying goes, "can't hurt, might help." Except the price, of course.
Mike
I wave my left arm in a semicircle eight times every hour on the hour between 8AM and 8PM weekdays (10AM and 12AM weekends) and have never been attacked by a pink crocodile. n e v e r. Go figure.
Correlation does not imply causation.
Well, let's do the math, shall we?
Castrol or Valvoline's at about $2.10/qt including tax. Mobil-1's at about $5.10/qt including tax. An FL400S filter is about $4.20 including tax.
Let's say your car takes 5 quarts and you want to drive it for 60,000 miles.
If you're changing dino oil every 3k miles, that's 20 filters and 100 quarts, so $210 worth of oil and $84 worth of filters. Total oil costs in
60k miles, assuming the engine consumes none: $294.If you're changing Mobil-1 every 9k miles, that's 6 filters and 30 quarts, so $153 worth of oil and $25.20 worth of filters. Total oil costs in 60k miles, assuming the engine consumes none: $178.20.
"Extra money" spent on synthetic: one hundred fifteen undollars and eighty uncents.
-DS
No problem. I feel it's safer to do it this way in case the additive packages don't play well together and of course if you had a turbo car etc, my advice would be different. For this car in your application, dino oil is a better solution. You could probably skip the extra change at 1000 miles if $20 is going to get in you way. I'm always amazed at people trying to save $20 on the service of a $20,000 car....
Dan, if I read your post correctly (and I didn't check the math), isn't the Mobil-1 regimen *cheaper* when compared to the dino regimen?
Shall we read it slowly?
one hundred fifteen undollars....
Yes...$115 more for the Dino regimen OR $115 less for the Mobil-1 regimen. I already got that.
Hence "undollars" and "uncents".
Yeah, it's safe.
Running an engine without oil=unsafe.
Ever wonder why synthetics have not caught on in the diesel arena? Particularly in passenger car diesels which routinely foul their oil very quickly?
I have an old Nissan diesel in a pickup. The manual states no more than
3,000 miles per change and if driven in severe conditions, 2,200 miles tops. You would CRINGE to see what this engine does to its oil by 3,000 miles of mixed freeway/town use, running Shell Rotella T. Your gasoline engines would be sludging up badly if their oil was allowed to get this foul.
If our oils also carried the MB (Mercedes Benz) oil rating system on the label, you would see that API sets the MINIMUM performance standard ... not the actual performance level of the oil above the minimum.
This is a pretty manufactured comparison. As a point of fact, I have never paid more than $1.00 per quart of dino oil. I wait until it goes on sale. Dan is probably only used to buying stuff at places like NAPA and doesen't realize that the Checkers/Kragen/Schucks people regularly discount dino oil, sometimes down to 49 cents a quart with rebate.
I would be happy to post scans of my last 5-6 cash register receipts that clearly show oil purchases at below $1.00 a quart if someone here wants to continue the rediculous claim that dino oil costs $2.10 a quart. And this is from this year since I buy as many cases as I can at the $1.00 a quart cost when it does go on sale. And this is name brand Chevron or Havoline oil also.
By contrast it is -extremely- rare for synthetic oil to be discounted - and when it is discounted, invariably it is only via rebate - and the fine print only allows 1 rebate per year per household. And also it isn't discounted much.
Ted
They are used regularly in the heavy truck market, however. (I also use it in my tractor).
Nonsense. Put AMSOIL in an sludged up motor and see what happens.
I see several problems with this comparison. Problem 1: You assume that the "dino" oil is shot at 3000 miles while the Mobil 1 is good till 9000 miles. While I might agree that the Mobil 1 is OK to 9000 miles, I don't agree that good quality "dino" oil is shot at 3000 miles. If you are willing to go for longer oil change intervals, why not assume the "dino" oil is good till 5000 miles or 6000 miles or whatever. You just picked a number that made your example work. Problem 2: Why do you assume you must change the oil filter every 3000 miles when you use conventional oil but that it is OK to use the same filter for 9000 miles with synthetic oil? I never change oil without changing the filter. However, if the filter can handle 9000 miles of contaminants when you are using synthetic oil, surely it could handle at least 6000 miles worth of contaminants when using "dino" oil. Problem 3: The warranty requirements for all of my cars require 5000 mile oil changes (3000 mile severe service) and don't give you any credit for using synthetic oil. So I can't really do the 9000 mile oil change routine without some risk to my warranty.
How about this comparison
Conventional Oil (using the severe service schedule):
6000 miles = 20 3,000 mile 5 qt. oil changes (severe service schedule) Oil cost = 100 x $2.10 a quart = $210 (excessively high, but you used this cost) Filter cost = 20 x $4.20 = $84.00 (are these Canadian costs???) Total cost = $210 + $84 = $294 (your figure, assuming 5 qt oil capacity)Synthetic Oil (using the normal service schedule):
6000 miles = 12 5,000 mile 5 qt. oil changes (severe service schedule) Oil cost = 60 x $5.10 a quart = $306 Filter cost = 12 x $4.20 = $50.40 Total cost = $306 + $50.40 = $356.40So, the synthetic oil is over $60 more expensive over 60,000 miles if you maintain warranty requirements. Even this comparison unfairly penalizes the conventional oil. I would guess that for most people, the conventional oil would still be fine at 5000 miles. Unless you can quantify the saving associated with synthetic oil (easier starting, longer engine life, etc.), I don't believe that most drivers can justify the use of synthetic oil solely on economics. I do believe synthetic oil is "better" but for most car owners the better qualities of synthetic oil do not result in net savings.
Ed
What if there is no Checkers/Kragen/Schucks stores in the vacinity? I only recognize the name from seeing it on TV. We've got NAPA and CarQuest and a few department stores. The cheapest I've seen the house brand (Valvoline) at NAPA and CarQuest is $.99 a quart.
Don't know about the Chevron but the Havoline, yeesh, what tar! And when I say tar, I mean experience from being inside engines that has had it's oil changed religiously every 3K miles and the owners have used Havoline exclusively since the vehicle was new.
NAPA has Mobil 1 on sale for the month of December for $3.99 a quart, Walmart almost always has 5 quart jugs for (IIRC) $19.88, sometime less.
It would seem for some people, it would take just as much manufacturing to achieve the price point you claim as it would for Daniel's claim.
Ya know, this -had- to happen!!
Yep. The two assumptions cancel each other out. I picked typical intervals that ordinary consumers tend to use with each type of oil. It doesn't really matter whether the intervals are 3000 vs. 9000 or 5000 vs. 12,000; the point is that synthetic oil is more durable in any given set of conditions. The only thing that changes with different sets of intervals is the cost crossover point.
'Cause synthetic oil doesn't break down into sludge, gum and karbonaceous krap to nearly the degree dino oil does.
Jolly fine, but we weren't talking about vehicle warranties. We were talking about oil costs.
Right on cue, here we go with Scamsoil again...
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