1991 Maxima - torque steer - after front axle work

Sounds like what my car did before I replaced the control arm bushings. of course Nissan wants you to buy the complete arm for $180 list I sell the arm for $87.50

Changing the axles doesn't "tighten" the front end. I've seen all sorts of weird problems caused with -rebuilt- axles. It seems they are all geared to a "price point" and most lack any sort of quality. I always prefer rebooting the OE axles rather than replacing them with cheap remans. You have to think, if new boots cost $15 in parts each and there are 2 on each axle, how good is a reman axle for $49.95 going to be? I've never seen anything other than these cheapo axles avalible anywhere, even if people charge more than $49.95 for them. Unfortunatly people aren't willing to pay for quality so all the rebuilders are forced to deliver cheapo ones.

I guess what I'm saying is, if it didn't do this before, the new axles are the only thing different and are probably the culprit. They wouldn't be bent to cause this, a CV joint that was remachined incorectly would do this and it wouldn't be visible or even measurable without very specialized equipment.

My 90 GXE also did this, but a realignment took care of the problem. Take it back and have them check the alignment. Ask for the print-out from the alignment computer. My experience w/ both my Maximas is that these cars are very sensitive to being out of alignment. I'm very critical of having my cars track straight and true and I check everything if there's something wrong: tires, wheels being out of round, bushings, tie rod ends,etc.

Chris

90 & 94 GXE's

I had my daughters 96 done by a reputable guy and we had to have him redo it. He said the length of the reman axel was wrong?!?! I was told and now I believe it, that Raxels is the place to get axels. they are supposed to be the best, but of course they are expensive, just the replacement axles would be as much as this guy charged you for all the work........ Good Luck,

Thanks for the replies. This is a pretty unhappy situation. Please forgive the following rant ...

Serves me right. I did all the repair work on this car for the last

11 years (timing belts, window regulators, power antenna, Bose amps, brakes, wheel cylinders, exhaust work ...). I just wanted a break so I took it in to get the axles done. I was just trying to prevent an unscheduled CV joint failure. Seemed like the right thing to do at the time. However, in retrospect it was absolutely the wrong thing to do. I never should have touched those axles. The car probably would have gone another 50k with the CV boots torn.

So ... the torque steer is getting real annoying (and I only drive 6 miles each way to work). I don't know what the problem is (bushing, defective axles ...) but I know that the car did not do this before.

This used to be a nice car. Drove nice and smooth. I used to love driving it, now I hate it. The car is no longer fun to drive and needs constant attention to minimize weaving due to torque steer. In short, the car is not just difficult to drive ... it is almost impossible to drive, downright scary. Can't let the wife use it any more.

The latest development ... there is a lot of noise coming from the left front wheel. Very very pronounced especially when driving next to a highway barrier or another car (so the sound gets reflected back). You just can't miss this sound (this car used to be essentially silent). This is no doubt a direct result of the axle work as well. Like I said, I never should have touched those axles.

Anyway the sound is kind of a pulsating whooshing sound. Sometimes I hear some squeaking when turning left as well. The sound does not change with brake application (the brakes are new) it just gets louder as you go faster. I will take the car back and have them look at it. I'm fairly certain the left wheel bearing is toast.

I knew there was risk of wheel bearing failure here. One of the reasons I did not do the axles is because I figured I would kill the wheel bearings. I figured the mechanic had better tools and could separate the axles without toasting the wheel bearings (this was of course incorrect).

So I pretty much have to fix it ... not a good time to get a new car. In the end, this axle job pretty much killed the car. I just don't have the time or money to go on a witch hunt for the cause or causes of the torque steer. Who knows what other parts got "stressed" during the axle replacement process.

So I will keep the Maxima for a while (torque steer and all). Either the wheel bearing fixes the torque steer or I'm getting a new/used car at the earliest opportunity. Kind of sad really, I didn't want a new car.

Thanks, I feel better now, Moses

You can put it up on jackstands under the control arms so the suspension is loaded and then run it in gear to hear the origin of the noise. I don't think it's your wheel bearings, these things just don't go out by changing axles unless the axles are the wrong length or something like that- but your tech pretty much ruled that out. You might want to take to a transmission shop and let them listen. I wonder if it could be a bad differential side bearing or something in the differential that is causing the torque steer? Maybe the shafts are putting too much end pressure on the diff pinion gear? From the sound you are describing, something sounds like it is getting ground up. If it's just a wheel bearing, that is not a very expensive fix ($200+/-).

I think you should keep investigating this problem. Putting in good, new parts should not cause problems like this.... and there was no shooter in the grassy knoll!!

Chris

90 & 94 GXE's

You're assuming they were "good" parts. I've had dozens of customer supplied axles that looked fine, matched what came out yet caused all sorts of weird problems. Everything from high speed accel or decel vibrations, to pulling, noises etc.

To the OP, in the future -replace the boots- don't replace the axles. IMHO only a *butcher* mechanic replaces a quiet axle just because the boots are split. No wonder he can't see what the problem is! The OEM axles are 1000% better than any reman.

If this car drives like you say, this moron can't figure it out??? Time to find someone else to look at it. first consider what a new car costs and then figure if you should pick a mechanic by what he charges for his work. It's not worth having a $$$$$ car totaled out by a "cheap" mechanic.

Steve, Ruling out defective or improper reman'd parts, where would you look to find the cause to this poor soul's problems?? Do you really think that possible subtle differences in his new parts vs. the old ones are causing this car to torque-steer and howl when on the road.

Chris

Why rule that out? My experience has been about 20% of the reman axles have some sort of problem out of the box and probably 50% fail in less than a years time.

Nope, the axles were replaced and the problem was there. Unless this guy threw away some susp bushings (likely if he didn't have enough sense to reboot quiet axles?), the axles are probably doing this.

Before I threw the car away, I'd try to find someone with a brain to figure out what's going on, after telling the new tech the WHOLE story! :-)

Thanks for all of the various comments. Here is an update. I decided not to take the car in for any additional service just yet. I have been driving the car. The torque steer is still there - no change. The noise from the front left side of the car has quieted a bit. The noise is still there ... it's just attenuated a bit. I believe the car is simply machining the offending surface as I drive - simply fabulous.

Somebody commented that it could be a bad differential side bearing or something in the differential that is causing the torque steer. This sounds like a realistic probability. When I took the car back, the mechanic said he thought it might be in the differential. The mechanic also said they don't do differential work.

My current thinking is that the mechanic had trouble getting the axles removed and replaced and that he damaged the differential. I think he knows he was the cause of the damage. He does not want the car back. Of course, I will never know for sure ... but I will never bring anything to the guy again (too bad, his shop is right down the block from work - walking distance).

So far I'm considering three options: 1) drive the car and wait for something to fail (I have AAA); 2) Take it to the Nissan dealer in the next town over (super expensive - but they do have the capability to fix the car). 3) take it to a transmission place like AAMCO - at least the have a shot at doing fixing this type of drive line problem.

So far, I am inclined to take option 1.

Thanks, Moses

Bad idea as if there is something wrong, the expence multiplies if you wait till it destroys stuff.

"Super expencive" is more expencive than throwing the car away and paying $30,000 for a new one?

They will probably cost 2X what a dealer will and use -some more- cheap aftermarket parts.

Yeah, I understand your point. But, it may be time to let this car go. I been driving on borrowed time anyway. At 150K miles, this car does not owe me anything.

I would not buy a new Maxima. I want one, but now is not the time. I would have to buy a used car. Probably not a Maxima either, perhaps something like a used Altima. I would have to put a little money down and shoot for payments of $275 per month or so.

Time is at a premium now. I'm having a house built and I'm fixing my current house and trying to get it on the market. It's going to be a major pain to get the old house sold before the new one is ready. I'm not even sure I will make it. I'm already taking a lot of risk in splurging on the new house. Things could get real ugly financially. I'm sure I'll survive but it is just such a crappy time to have deal with the car, both financially and time wise. I'm just about ready do drop dead from all the projects.

I'm thinking there is just too much risk on spending more cash on further repairs on the Maxima without knowing what the problem is. If I could diagnose the problem, I would feel more comfortable taking the car in for service (or even attempting a repair). At least I would know if I was getting ripped off.

The dealer knows that this differential is a black box to most folks. I think we all know that they are pretty much free to charge whatever they want.

I don't know about you folks, but I have not had good luck with the cost of repairs at the dealer. I do trust them to fix the car but their prices are unsupportable. So I tend to do most of the repairs myself.

Example #1. A few years back I noticed the maxima transmission was not going into gear properly. I traced it to a bad bushing in the tail of the shifter linkage. Simple problem to diagnose. Went to the dealer. They could fit me into the schedule in about a week. The cost of the repair would be roughly $150. I purchased the bushing from the parts department - cost about a dollar. I jacked the car up, put the jack stands in place, installed the bushing in a half hour - including the time to clean up. I'm not the worlds greatest mechanic ... it was an easy job, amazingly easy ... just remove four bolts and drop a small pan, remove a clip, put the bushing in, install the clip and install the pan. So I figure the Nissan mechanic could do this job in about 10 minutes (probably more like 5). The Nissan dealer effectively charges between $300 and $600 per hour for labor. I have seen effective labor rate over and over again.

Example #2. I took my GMC suburban in to the GMC dealer since it had a periodic misfire and something was whining under the hood (my guess was the alternator). They offered to change the cap and rotor, the alternator, fuel filter and do some fuel service (you know the chemicals to clean the fuel injectors). The price .. $950+ dollars. They said they could have it done that day ... with tax that repair was going to be over a grand. I took the truck home instead. Went to Autozone, got their $100 alternator (with the lifetime replacement guarantee), replaced the alternator in about 20 minutes. The alternator was held in with 2 bolts. The truck uses a serpentine belt, you don't even have to adjust the belt tension. The cap and rotor kinda sucked to get to, it's way in the back, took a while to change that. ... but the numbers just don't add up. Again the dealer was charging near $600 for an hour job.

Sometimes the dealer can give a marginally reasonable price (i.e., not gouging). For example, I needed the fuel tank vent hose changed. The dealer said they would charge $55 for labor. They could fit me into the schedule in about a week. If they could have done it sooner, I would have gone for it. I changed the hose in about an hour. But keep in mind I needed to use a floor jack and jack stands... the dealer has a lift. This is a 10 minute job if you have the room to get under the car - it's kinda tight in there.

Moses

Moses, This is how dealers and other shops MAKE THEIR MONEY!!! Big time profit margin on jobs like that! While we're on the subject, here's a story about a local tranny shop: Shop is privately owned and has good rep for doing auto trannies. Owner decides to sell out to another private owner. Reputation holds good for a while, until he sells to another individual, who then decides the only way to make money is to charge $100 or so under what the dealer charges and cops a "take it or leave it attitude". Business slacks off and the original owner's son (who actually does the rebuilds) quits to work for a buddy's shop just up the road. The subject shop, who btw retains the original owner's name from the old days, sends all his trannies up the road to be rebuilt, lays off all the good mechanics, hires some hacks to do the r&r (remove/reinstalls) and still charges just under the dealer's cost. There's hardly any cars in line for work since their reputation sucks with the local mechanics, so they just sit there and wait for some poor, dumb slob like you and me to drop their car off and accept an inflated price for a rebuild, which you can get 25% cheaper just up the road at the quality shop who's actually doing the rebuild!! Plus they have decided to do brakes, shocks etc. that makes fast money.

I think they call it outsourcing, downsizing, market realignment, or whatever the pencil-necked MBA pricks have figured is the easiest way to make money!! God, I love modern American business concepts!!!

If you live anywhere near North Dallas, I got a great tranny rebuilder who will fix your drivetrain problem, drop you off and pick you up at the bus station!

Don't give up on your Maxima if it's been otherwise well-maintained. They are great cars that last a long time. Bottom line: a GOOD shop will figure out what's wrong and won't screw you doing it.

Chris

90 & 94 GXE's

I doubt it's the differential. Going straight down the road it's doing nothing, even if it was locked up it wouldn't do anything going straight down the road unless the front tires are different diameters. I understand your point and position but I'd bet those jerks installed at least one bad axle.

Thanks for the encouragement folks. The car is still going. Still torque steering. Still making some "machining like" noises from the front left wheel area.

I'm in NJ. Not sure who to trust with this problem (hence the reason I am doing nothing to fix things).

It just occurred to me ... what about NJ inspection. I'm due in April. In NJ, they put the car on a Dynamometer - you know those rollers - and they measure the exhaust emissions under a load. I'm not worried about the emissions - I wonder what the torque steer will feel like with the car on the rollers. I gotta believe the technician is going to notice - it might be hard to keep the car on the rollers without weaving erratically. They could refuse to pass the car based on its erratic behavior.

Moses

I have a '91 Nissan Maxima and I'm in NJ too. I was in a similar situation a few months ago (torn CV boots, noise from the front axles, very frustrating, etc.) and was about to replace both axles when I went to the Nissan Doctor in Newark. The mechanic told me basically the same thing: it's better to replace the boots and regrease the OEM axles than get an aftermarket set. In the end I did just that. Now my car with over 160k miles drives like a 1.5 yr. old car. The guys who owns the shop works on Nissans for 25 years and he knows Maximas like the palm of his hand. He's in the Ironbound section of Newark.

Don't give up, once you get the front end fixed you'll enjoy your Maxima for another several years without making extra car payments. At least that's what I'm doing now :))

P.S. I'm not affiliated nor related to the Nissan Doctor, just a very happy customer :) If >Thanks for the encouragement folks. The car is still going. Still