rear sway bar and FSTB

I'd be VERY shocked if you could actually feel any difference on a street car doing that.. People say they can feel it but I've driven them with and without them and until you open the hood, you'd never know it was there.

Now sway bars are something you would notice. A larger rear bar will help take the push out of the front end but can induce lift throttle oversteer on a front drive car, which can be bad news if you aren't ready for it.

What happens... You go into a corner too hot and part way in you figure this out and lift, it unsettles the car and the back end starts to come around. On a rear drive car you can just countersteer and apply some power and continue through the turn. If you do that on a front drive car it doesn't work at all, you have to turn in and apply power and hope it pulls back into shape. It's why they put heavy understeer into front drive cars as most people can't deal with lift throttle oversteer on a front driver. As long as you POWER THROUGH the turn, it works fine and makes for a fast corning car. Just don't go in over your head and lift...

Reply to
Steve T
Loading thread data ...

I had an FTSB on my 98SE. Definitely noticed a difference. The car just felt more sure footed during cornering. You would only really notice it during really hard cornering anyhow. If you don't take your corners hard and load up on your front tires, then you won't feel it.

I've felt that, too:) Oversteer on a front heavy FWD car like the Maxima can be quite dangerous. It's just too abrupt. On the street it isn't too favorable for handling, but on the track, it's manageable.

CD

Reply to
Codifus

I agree the Maxima benefits from a FSTB. Because Nissan made as big a car as they could for the weight, and there isn't that much metal holding the front together. The towers load up and start moving around. I suspect other cars would not benefit as much. I paid $35 from beatstreet.com for mine.

Cornering is a bit better, and vibration/harshness is reduced a bit. These effects are definitely subtle, like taking a couple of years of mileage off your struts. OTOH, there was a very bad seam on an entrance ramp that I would hit every day at 40-50 mph. It was on a diagonal to the road, and the left and right front wheels hit at slightly different times. This would completely unsettle the car, and induce a hairy yaw for a couple of seconds. After I put on the FSTB, that effect was simply gone. So I know it isn't just bling.

Reply to
jmattis

The FSTB made a significant difference in handling on my '91 SE. Curves are much tighter, no front body roll. I can't imagine NOT having it.

Bill G '91 SE Auto

180,304 miles
Reply to
Bill G

Maybe you can explain how a FSTB can possiblely affect body roll? The sway bar is what controls this and the FSTB isn't located anywhere near the mounting point for the bar. Even if you consider the spring rate has an effect on this, the ONLY thing a FSTB can help is camber change due to the top of the strut moving in and out, which if it moved very much at all would soon crack the sheet metal around the strut mount. That isn't happening on these cars.

An effective FSTB connects the tops of the towers to the firewall and each other to triangulate this part of the car, otherwise they are almost useless. I have yet to see any of the street ones made this way.

Everyone believes these "work" because they read the hype and spent the money so they "feel" the difference. It's like the 15HP a CAI makes, they hear the noise so the "feel" the power. Like I said I've driven dozens of these cars with them and wouldn't have known it until I opened the hood. In case you think I'm not a good enough driver to feel this, how many national events have you won? :-)

Reply to
Steve T

Again, explain how a FSTB affects body roll? Go out and look at where it's mounted, how it's mounted (most have heim joints on each end) and explain how it could possibly do anything besides -maybe- control a breath of camber change from the strut tower flexing. Then look at all the reenforcements on the car already, that the strut towing is a box and then think about how "stiff" that FSTB is compared to the body of the car.. I bet you'd have a hard time moving the strut tower with a portapower and get more than 1/4 of a degree.

$100 says you come by and drive the car 10 times and if you don't know whether the bar is installed or not, you'd never guess which was which. Now if these were large tubes solidly welded and triangulated the firewall to the strut towers I might see how they could help with some rotational flexing but since they have heim joints, all they can do is move around with the body.

As far as "being an ass" I get tired of people just repeating BS they read someone else post, probably from the people selling these things or other that read the ads, then make claims like "makes the car much more stable"...

To the OP, save the money you'd waste on a FSTB and put it towards some better tires..

Reply to
Steve T

I didn't repeat what anyone has said. I'm only going on my experience. The car definitely handles better with the brace than without it. I've had it off since I purchased it, and I can tell right away that it's off. Corners are not as crisp, and the front end "rolls" a little when turning. I'm sorry I don't have the detailed scientific analysis that you seem to require. But you haven't put up anything scientific either that says an FSTB DOESN'T work, yet there are many resources on the web that support the function of an FSTB, especially on the Maxima.

You're being an ass because you think all your so-called racing experience (which nobody has any way to verify) makes your opinion matter more than mine, or anyone else's for that matter. I'm just telling the OP what my experiences are with the FSTB. YMMV.

Bill G '91 SE Auto

180,455 miles Multiple winner of numerous unknown racing events (Most famously the Traverse City to Big Rapids One-Car Rally)
Reply to
Bill G

Sure I do and I posted them. How can a FSTB with heim joints on each end control body roll? Maybe you can't understand that that isn't even what these things are supposed to be doing? A sway bar is what controls body roll.

From people like you...

Reply to
Steve T

Not in this thread. Show us what you've got that nobody else has ever shown regarding an FSTB not working on a Maxima.

formatting link
formatting link
formatting link
I guess all these sites are wrong but Steve T is right.

The fact is, my car handles much better with the brace than without it. I'm sorry you disagree, but you are very much in the minority with regards to the Maxima. Maybe an FSTB doesn't help other cars, but it certainly helps the one this newsgroup is dedicated to.

I'm done discussing this.

Bill G

Reply to
Bill G

The thing with the FSTB is that it's somewhat hard to describe it's effect. Yes, body roll is not what's affected, but I'm sure you know what the oter poster was getting at. The street FSTBs only connect the 2 struts and hence control the camber in that they help to keep struts perfectly parallel to each other. Without the FSTB, in a hard corner scenario, the outside strut will flex more than the inside strut, so the front wheels will be become less parallel, and therfore the cornering will feel funny, or less confident.

CD

Reply to
Codifus

Really think about what you wrote, then go LOOK at the car and how the strut towers are designed.

The ends of the struts have a MAJOR leverage advantage to the tire already. The pivot point is way below the centerline of the tire at the ball jount. we're talking about street tires on a FWD car that already has too much front sway bar and the power being routed through these 2 tires so there isn't much grip to start with.

You really think the outside tire grips enough to cause the strut towers to move around enough to change the camber enough to be an issue? It they did, we'd be hearing of cracks in the sheet metal around the strut towers on at least ONE car wouldn't you think? The strut shaft itself is MUCH more likely to be bending than the car's unibody is.

Again if these were SOLIDLY welded to the strut towers and the firewall to triangulate it, MAYBE I could buy this? I've test driven cars with these and never knew it till I opened the hood. I'd be shocked if anyone could do a double blind test and repeatedly pick the car that had one installed. Trust me people will feel all kind of thing that aren't there. I've done dyno tests before and after a performance exhaust that actually LOST power yet the owner swore it was faster..

Like I said, take the money you'd spend on this, buy a rear bar and some better tires..

Reply to
Steve T

It's not rocket science. If the unibody was moving around this much, the metal would fatigue and crack. I've never heard of that problem on these cars.

From people like you..

Go look at how many sites claim a CAI on a honda makes power yet I've done the dyno tests, they don't. You honestly think because someone made a "FAQ" its a fact?

Just because these guys bought a FSTB and believe it made a difference, just means they believe what they are told.

I would be too..

Reply to
Steve T

Have to agree with steve, I put a FSTB on my '93 Maxima, and could not notice any difference what so ever in any type of driving, I was running standard springs and sway bars, with 6 month old KYB gas shock absorbers.. I have since upgraded the front and rear sway bars, and they certainly do make a difference.. The FSTB is still on though.. mainly because I couldn't be bothered removing it.. and it also makes a good place to rest your hand on while working on the rear side of the engine..

Greg.

Reply to
Greg Stewart

Steve, But they come with cool stickers, john brake harder, later into the turn

Reply to
john

Exactly... :-)

Reply to
Steve T

Flexing like a spring and actual bending are 2 different things. If it actually bent, it would throw the alignment off, eventually work harden, and possibly crack the metal. But temporarily flexing like a spring under stress does not work harden the metal.

And metal on some cars may not be that hardened to start with or accident repair would be very difficult. I was putting rear speakers in a Subaru wagon once and figured I could snip most of the hole and then just bend it back and forth like a tin can lid. But the metal was so ductile that it did not want to snap off after much bending.

But it is hard to tell how effective an STB is unless you could have sync'd TV cameras under the hood and in the car to see any movement of the strut towers with or without it.

Reply to
David Efflandt

Like I said, I doubt anyone doing double blind testing could repeatedly pick which car had one and which didn't.

Reply to
Steve T

Well ... My experience is as follows:

  1. '97 I30t U-turn lane on US 75 in Richardson Tx. Right out of dealer (in
97), max speed 45 before steering goes from under steer to over steer. Add FSTB, max speed 63 before it changes to over steer.

  1. '96 I30 (this one is already 7 years old and 80k miles into it when I got it). Same U-turn lane on US 75. Steering starts to knuckle under at about

35 MPH. Add FSTB, takes same lane at high 50's.

I don't know about body roll/whatever, but I do know the difference between under steer and over steer and the FSTB makes a discernable difference to the steering at speed on that generation of Maxima (i30).

Reply to
E Meyer

LOL doubles the cornering grip? What have YOU been smoking!

Reply to
Steve T

I haven't been smoking anything. You, on the other hand, seem to have a pretty significant case of PMS lately. If you care to try it for yourself, that same lane is still there and I still have access to both cars...

This thread reminds me of discussions with my wife - she won't give in, so she starts arguing that the I's aren't dotted correctly or the t's aren't crossed in the explanation.

Reply to
E Meyer

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.