GM's excess baggage - Buick, Pontiac, Saab, Hummer

I think GM's problem is that they are making cars for their perceived target market: Rental Car companies. They don't care what the rest of us with our one-off purchases think. This comment is made a bit tongue-in-cheek, but what else explains the bland products they are making more of lately? Products only a rental car company would want.

GM's misreading of what the general public wants goes back many years. When I bought my first new car in 1990, I ended up with a Ford Taurus even though my dad was a GM employee and UAW member. Back then, GM had survey results that said their customers didn't want front passenger airbags. So they installed seat belts attached to the doors as passive restraints. I didn't want airbags, but those stupid seatbelts were even less desirable. Today: I want a mid-sized or full sized sedan with a stick shift. What is available from GM? I couldn't find anything. I bought a 2.3L Ford Fusion that I will drive until Saab brings their BioPower equipped model to North America.

I think GM's problem is far simpler than that. They haven't a clue. Not even a tiny one.

I watch the way they've trashed the Saab brand in dismay for example.

Graham

Americans aren't very bright and are also all too willing to sign up to stupid counter-productive nationalism.

Whilst Americans continue to buy bad American cars just to be 'patriotic' they are actually killing the US auto industry by letting it off the hook in its domestic market and giving it an excuse not to address many fundamental issues about those same vehicles.

Graham

Yes, at times it is kinda like welfare for Detriot auto industry.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

I wouldnt call American cars BAD, they are really just as good as any from my experience, but I admit they are ho hum plain and boring. American cars used to have attitude and thats what those who drive american want back...attitude.

Well.... US cars tend to have relatively poor fuel efficicency and are the last bastion of the likes of live rear axles and poor suspension and indifferent handling it has to be said.

Graham

How do you figure? Take a look at the ratings for domestic and foreign cars of the same size and there is little, if any, difference. People are still buying big cars, both imported and domestic.

Really? And what sort of factual evidence do you base this factual conclusion on Grahmam?

You been buzzing around in the states in a bunch of chevys and fords lately?

lemme give you my actual (as in experienced) recent results. I drove a Chevy (humoungous) Imapala recently from BH to Baltimore (450+ miles) and back and averaged over 30 mpg. This is a bohemoth sized car and I was completely astounded at the mileage.

How? My guess i sth extremely high gearing and small displacement 6 cyl engine.

Yes, big cars tend to have poorer fuel efficiency than smaller ones. Your point was ?

Graham

My point was - - - - - - - It is not just US cars, it is all big cars. So how do you figure US cars tend to have poor fuel economy? There are some small US cars that get comparable mileage to imports.

That's only true for a few older designs that few buy. RWD police models included. OH yes those truck based SUVs also included, but they aren't cars.

Most NA cars for over a human generation have been very efficient and well built. In fact they were the first with stainless steel exhausts and body sheet metal galvanizing for lower priced cars.

Many Americans no longer know what an American vehicle is. That "foreign" car just may be more American than a Big 3 car.

I was going to respond to the previous poster's statement about only being patriotic by buying American. I find that comment about 30 years out of date. Graham's vast overgeneralization about Americans (would that be North, South or Central Americans?) that "aren't very bright" deserves comment too.

While it may be said as a joke, nobody I know still seriously considers someone un-American if they buy a Toyota or Honda who offer the two most popular models in the US, made in California and Ohio, respectively. Nor are they more patriotic if they buy a Ford (which is probably made in Mexico), GM or Chrysler (either brand likely made in Canada). The only exception to this are the comments from members of the United Auto Workers trade union, primarily in Michigan. Don't make the mistake of assuming that the stupid outcries of one special interest group in one state in the United States has any meaning or impact to the citizens of the other 49 states.

Graham, your comments about Americans are consistently based on age-old stereotypes that are obsolete. When was the last time you saw the United States, and what tiny portion did you see? Or is it just your closed mindedness that makes your perspective tiny?

They may do but the US auto makers don't pomote them much do they ? Whilst Detroit continues to lavish its attention on SUVs and muscle cars, overall fuel efficency will continue to be dismal.

Graham

Maybe we missed your point. We thought you meant US brands of cars have poorer fuel economy than foreign brands.

Pawlowski's comment is "ratings for domestic and foreign cars of the same size and there is little, if any, difference". The only accurate conclusion is that some people in the US buy less economical cars - either foreign or domestic. OK. So what? I can't change what America buys and your complaining won't change it either, particularly when you are complaining to a group that drives Saabs. Have you heard the expression "Preaching to the choir"? I can only do my small part. My new car gets 35 mpg (6.7 l/100km), seats 5 comfortably, uses low-cost, regular octane gasoline, and is classified as an Ultra Low Emissions (II) Vehicle. BTW, it is a US brand: Ford.

Did you actually mean that cars sold in the US have poorer fuel efficiency? That begs the question: Poorer efficiency than what? Cars in Europe that require more resource consuming and expensive premium fuel? Cars from around the world, including Europe, that emit more than double the pollution allowed by US standards? Cars that don't meet US safety standards and would be as bloated with weight as US cars if the safety equipment is added? Cars (particularly small ones) that foreign manufacturer's won't ship to or can't legally sell in North America?

Ah, now you have hit on something, but not what you think. In my opinion, US auto makers do a miserable job of promoting ALL their models. Ford is starting to do a better job with their mid-sized Fusion model, but every other US promo I see is advertising "low lease rates" or "low financing" with annoying music in the background, telling nothing about the car. A while back, Ford was advertising "A Focus and a Dell (computer)" where they gave away a "free" computer with the purchase of a Focus - targeted to college students.

Detroit doesn't advertise SUV's any better than their smaller models, or any differently than the foreign brands. In fact, you may have it backwards. Mercedes advertises their M series, Porsche their Cayenne, but I don't recall any E series or Boxster commercials. The same goes for Kia, Honda, Hyundai, etc.

I've been to many places in US, people are very friendly, I must say. It's a great country with lots of space, hence large cars as people like to drive around vast distances. I even saw a large mobile home car with a smaller car in tow, presumably for the odd shopping trips. People seem fairly laid back, because they mostly can afford to as petrol (gas) is cheap. They eat huge meals, and it sometimes shows... The Gran Canyon is a phenomenal breathtaking sight, it confirmed the old theory that the earth is flat end ends somewhere :-) They have now build a glass ramp where you can walk right out in the canyon, should be quite spectacular and a bit scary. Naturally, EU and the countries want to set their mark as the origin of philosophy and science. Nobody should take patent on being the best in the world, as it will only be short lived.

Eeyore proclaimed:

Unlike the European brands that are bringing us such fuel efficient vehicles as the V12 Mercedes, the Turbo Cayenne, the V10 Audi, etc. Of course you could always blame it on the poor neighbors to the south, where such "American" evils as the new Hemi are built.

You won't see many of the above on European roads. Even a 2 litre engine is bigger than average here.

Graham