GM's excess baggage - Buick, Pontiac, Saab, Hummer

Did you know that methane from cows has a very serious greenhouse gas effect.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore
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No, I dont know that, but have heard it quoted a number of times. Cows (and people, for that matter) dont increase carbon based gases in the ecosphere over the equlibrium which has been established over the eons. The vegetation they would eat to produce this flatulence is just part of the recirculating carbon balance.

The serious increases are from carbon sources which have removed or made unavailable over the millenia in the form of coal deposits, oil deposits, etc.

Reply to
<HLS

Well, you say that but cows (and people) have never before existed in such numbers on the planet.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Doesnt make any difference. As long as the carbon comes from surface (vegetation) sources, it can be recirculated without massively upsetting the apple cart. You see, the "apple cart" is the climatic system that we are adapted to, after thousands of years of development.

Over the past millions of years, the climate has been far different, and not always very pleasant. Many species went extinct, but some survived.

As long as the carbon is locked away in the ground, as coal or oil, then everything else on the surface just recycles, more or less. But as you mine the reserve fossil deposits and convert them to CO2 or CH4, you begin to move the "apple cart" out of the realm of human adaptability and back to conditions as they were when other species were king.

Reply to
<HLS

It's nice that you're happy with your Sonata, but comparing it to a Lucerne is like apples and oranges. The two vehicles are clearly in a different class. If you've never compared a built in nav system to a portable such as a Garmin (I've used both, and also have a gps phone)... there's no comparison in convenience, visuals, not to mention that it mutes the stereo when it's about to speak directions, and has wonderful visuals. And I believe On Star is a serious consideration when purchasing a car. I've used it, I have it on both vehicles, and to me (driving over 50K a year personally, and around 75K a year between the two cars) it's a valuable service.

While you'd spend 11,600 more to get the same features, you'd also get a luxury car as compared to a nicely appointed econocar.

Willy

Reply to
Willy

As a matter of curiosity, what about it makes you say "you're not particularly fond of it"?

Willy

Reply to
Willy

I see you haven't driven a Sonata lately. It is out of the econocar class. No, not luxury, but far from the crap boxes of years ago.

What exactly do I get for the additional $11,600? Yes, there are some differences in trim. The dash covering of the Lucerne is a bit nicer. The climate control on the Sonata works better. The Sonata only has one temperature on the heated seats as opposed to two. The Sonata has a better gas gauge, both have the same brand of electrochromatic mirror. The Lucerne has rain sensing wipers and turns the headlights on when you turn the wipers on. The floor mats on the Sonata lock in place too, not slide like my Buick.

The Sonata has stability control across the model line as opposed to the Lucerne that only has it on the most expensive model. Given the true cost of the equipment, it is not fathomable that it would not be offered on an upscale car today.

The Sonata will out accelerate, out corner, out stop, out handle the Lucerne in any test you can devise. It is rock solid at speeds in excess of 100 mph (yes, I've tested that) And - - - - get this- - - -has more shoulder room!

As for OnStar, I've never been able to justify the high price. In the year of free service, I used it twice. One time they gave me directions that were helpful but not completely accurate, the other time they could not help me at all. The new system for directions is probably better, I'll concede, but not worth the money to me. If I was back in sales driving to many different places every day, maybe. I don't have or need a Garmin either so it is not a feature I care about.

The Buick is not a bad car, but it certainly is not the value that I got in my Sonata. I'd rather put the difference into taking a couple of nice vacations. We like to take two or three a year.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Yeahbut the cows of old used to fart more than the cows of today.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

It handles like a boat. It really wallows on the road as the suspension is designed to be ultra soft. The small 6 cylinder engine is gutless. To pass requires the automatic transmission to downshift 2 gears and is still not a particlarly blistering acceleration.

The car that *I* own is an '03 SAAB 9^3 Vector. It has lots of power, snappy acceleration, decent handling, good comfort and gets 32 mpg (actual) on the highway.

Compared to the Vector, the Chevy is a dog. But it's free and comes with free gas and maintenance from my company.

Reply to
Fred W

Let us know where, we will get that fixed ASAP!

WHen you park the RV, you spend a lot of time leveling it so that all the plumbing systems work. So, you bring along a car for trips once the RV is parked.

He, he, bigger is better! Seriously, most people here tend to equate quantity with quality at restaurants. They also consume a lot of crap that shouldn't go into their bodies in quantity.

We spent several years scraping out that canyon, I'm glad you like it. It was just flat ground when we started.

Some countries have learned this, some companies, there are many left of both that still need to learn.

Reply to
still me

Well Ed, I'm truly glad you're happy with the Sonata. It seems to me from the frequency I see them on the road these days that a lot of folks are happy with them, and I'm confident Honda is truly concerned over the recent success. To me comparing a Sonata to an Accord is a true apples to apples comparison.

I suppose my only point, and I think you'll agree, that if one is seeking a plush riding Lexus quiet superbly comfortable car, the Lucerne is a great choice - one that I'll give serious consideration within a few months.

On the other hand, if one is seeking an outstanding daily driver that offers a degree of sportiness, solid tight handling, lots of features at a great price (and warranty)... then the Sonata is an outstanding choice. (as would be the Accord, Mazda, Altima, Camry).

Have a great day.

Willy

Reply to
Willy

Actually it's the burping that releases most of the methane !

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

You'd think that, but I was in an Accord last Wednestday. It was OK, but not impressive. Based on my short experience, I'd not go any further to check them out to buy.

Check out the Azera. Really, a very close match to the Lucerne. ).

Thanks, it has been so far.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

There are many good people here.. Especially among the campers.

Yep. Shows sometimes, makes noise, smells.

Are you trying to say, gently, that American women tend to be lardasses???

It ISNT flat??;>)

Reply to
<HLS

I know that a lot of stupid people thinks the earth is round ;-)

Reply to
Johannes Andersen

Eeyore proclaimed:

Although cows contribute signifantly more, humans emit a more dangerous greenhouse gas, methane, as a byproduct of digestion.

Reply to
Lon

Fred W proclaimed:

Has as much to do with your right foot as the vehicle. With a decent rear ratio, a wider ratio transmission, good radials, and the old Quadrajet you could hit the low 20s with a 427 [390 hp] in an older Impala. With fuel injection that would go up quite a bit even tho the old Q-Jet wasn't that bad as long as you left the secondaries closed.

Reply to
Lon

Cows don't actually contribute any CO2, and humans don't either. Cows, like humans, can only generate CO2 by eating carbon-containing material. Cows eat grass. The grass was CO2 in the atmosphere only a week before they eat it. It's not important. If the grass dies and turns back into CO2 without the cow, it's just the same. It doesn't matter what the cows eat, because they don't ever eat petroleum or coal. They always eat something that was CO2 a little while before, and will be CO2 a little while later if they don't eat it. People are the same way.

The methane is important, because it wasn't methane before they ate it. Grass + cows can convert CO2 to CO2, which is dull. It's too dull to talk about. The important thing is that grass + cows can convert CO2 to methane, and that is worth talking about. Methane is better insulation than CO2, and contributes more to global warming.

Reply to
Joe

Thanks to assembly in Sweden and some parts coming from Sweden albeit

17-26% and some coming from Germany these cars will always OWN the collection of CRAP GM puts on the market. If not for Saab, GM would not have lots of the ideas they are using in many models today as they have appeared to be devoid of any imagination since 1972. In some cases, Saab ideas are the ONLY things that are even slightly interesting about some of GM's cars. They are trying to make Saturn Saabs and Malibu Saabs. Much like Volvo has been carrying Ford. All their stupid bragging about safety. Their cars would STILL be death traps if not for Volvo's ideas. Until GM gets over the fact that not everyone wants a car that looks identical to everyone else's they will continue down the road to bankruptcy. And they have spent the last 35 years gaining momentum down that road. Clearly the GM brass is either laced with morons, or they are just lost souls who think they don't have to please their clients in order to make money. If they let Saab go, they will not have a single car in their lineup that is even good enough to be considered mediocre.GOOD LORD!
Reply to
Horsepower200

Wow a June 5th 2007 thread. I know the usenet is probably difficult for you cardealerforum dweebs to understand but old threads are usually just that. OLD.

Next time you want to take a crap use your bathroom.

Frig'n mindless trolls.

Reply to
Bon·ne·vil

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