Pontiac Solstice - Borrows from 1970s Grand Prix

Im not an american car fan at all (well, in general, of anything made after 1976) -- but i got a look at the solstice on 'the apprentice' last night...is a really good looking car.

Took a look at it on the pontiac website....is it just me...or does it borrow heavily from the 1971-72 grand prix? the headlights and grill are very much like the round lights on that model...the side mirrors look exactly like they were lifted off of one.......

I own a BMW 330 and a Nissan Xterra..i wont buy an american car again until i know people who can get 150 or 200K out of them without being on their 3rd engine, trim falling off and loose handling when the cars get old, and having to replace the same crapily built parts over and over again....Ford GM and Chrysler are all smart to take advantage of nostalgia with all of the new models they are releasing....frankly..it's their only edge....the recently released Ford Mustang and Chrysler 300 are other great examples.......if the US could just resolve their quality control issues....and start making cars again as well as they did in the 60s and 70s.....I think they would get a lot of buyers back...

Reply to
Brandon
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Thats funny because I always see BMW's that look/run like crap and they only have 80K on them.

Reply to
Paradox

Reply to
Bryan Lee

For Bryan: Is this what you're refering to? - J. D. Power Initial Quality Survey Results 2005 (First 90 days of ownership)/AUTOWEEK - Number of defects per 100 cars (Top 10 in INITIAL Quality): - (1) Lexus .................... 81 (0.81 per car ) (2) Jaguar .................. 88 (3) BMW ..................... 95 (4) Buick ..................... 100 (one per car) (5/6) Cadillac ................ 104 (tie) (5/6) Mercedes ............. 104 (tie) (7) Toyota ................... 105 (8) Audi ....................... 106 (9) Infiniti ..................... 109 (10) Hummer ................. 110 - Sorry, don't see Pontiac or Chebby/Ford there.

Reply to
William Smith

You mean this article?

------------------------- J.D. Power and Associates Reports: Toyota Motor Corporation, General Motors Corporation Garner Most Awards in

2005 Initial Quality Study

HUMMER, Nissan and Scion Show Strong Improvement

WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.,: 18 May 2005 ? Toyota Motor Corporation and General Motors Corporation, the two largest automobile manufacturers in the world, capture 15 of the 18 top model segment awards, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2005 Initial Quality StudySM (IQS) released today.

In the study, Toyota Motor Corporation earns 10 of the top model segment awards, with the Lexus SC 430 honored as the highest-ranking model for the second consecutive year, at 54 problems per 100 vehicles (PP100). Other Toyota models earning segment awards include the Toyota Prius (Compact Car), Scion tC (Sporty Car) and Toyota RAV4 (Entry SUV).

General Motors earns five top model segment awards, including those for the Chevrolet Malibu/Malibu Maxx (Entry Midsize Car), Buick Century (Premium Midsize Car) and Chevrolet Suburban (Full-Size SUV).

"The 2005 IQS results contain some genuinely good news for General Motors," said Chance Parker, executive director of product and research analysis at J.D. Power and Associates. "The improvements of the quality of several models and at their North American plants are both very positive signs."

Ford Motor Company captures two model awards, with the Ford Explorer Sport Trac (Midsize Pickup) and Ford F-150 LD (Full-Size Pickup) ranking highest in their respective segments.

Assembly Plant Awards

General Motors Corporation sweeps the North/South America plant quality awards. General Motors? Oshawa #2, Ontario, Canada, plant, which produces the Buick Century, Buick LaCrosse and Pontiac Grand Prix, earns the Gold Plant Quality Award. The Oshawa #1, Ontario, and Hamtramck, Mich., plants earn the Silver and Bronze Plant Quality awards, respectively.

For the fourth consecutive year, Toyota Motor Corporation?s Tahara, Japan, car plant receives the Platinum Plant Quality Award for worldwide plant quality with a score of 59 PP100. The Tahara plant produces the Lexus GS 300/GS 430 and the Lexus LS 430. Toyota?s Higashi-Fuji, Japan, plant and Nissan?s Tochigi, Japan, plant earn the Silver and Bronze Plant Quality awards, respectively, among Asia Pacific plants.

Among European plants, Ford Motor Company?s Jaguar plant in Halewood, Liverpool, U.K., receives the Gold Plant Quality Award. BMW?s Regensburg, Germany, plant earns the Silver Plant Quality Award. BMW?s Munich and Porsche?s Stuttgart plants tie for the Bronze Plant Quality Award.

Marked Improvement

The study shows that a number of makes and models demonstrate marked improvements from the 2004 study. Chief among them is HUMMER, with a

36 percent reduction in reported problems. Since its debut in the 2003 IQS, HUMMER has reduced reported problems by 115 PP100.

"In the past, there was a lot of talk about HUMMER?s poor quality being related to poor fuel economy," said Parker. "This year?s results clearly show that the people at HUMMER knew this wasn?t the case. They identified many customer-reported problems and solved them."

Nissan also performed dramatically better in the 2005 study, with the Nissan Quest as the most-improved model, recording an impressive 104 PP100 improvement. Other models showing notable improvements are the Kia Spectra (64 PP100 improvement), the HUMMER H2 (63 PP100 improvement), and the Scion xA (62 PP100 improvement).

Overall, the automotive industry garners only a minor increase in industry-wide initial quality in 2005. After showing an 11 percent quality improvement from 2003 to 2004, the overall industry average has improved only one PP100 in 2005 to 118 PP100.

"Competition in the automotive industry is incredibly intense," said Parker. "Even though the 2005 results may suggest a plateau in quality, manufacturers should not become complacent. The IQS has tracked similar apparent ?plateaus? before in 1996 and 2003. In both cases, the following year?s results showed dramatic quality improvements. Car companies that take their eye off the ball risk being left behind."

Manufacturers demonstrate overall improvement in more than one-half of the 135 problem symptoms included in the study, compared to 2004. Among the nine problem categories surveyed, ride/handling/braking and exterior problems continue to cause the greatest challenge to manufacturers. Consumers report that the transmission causes the least number of problems.

What IQS Measures

IQS is a model-level study. It measures 135 attributes across nine categories, including ride/handling/braking, engine and transmission, and a broad range of quality problems symptoms reported by vehicle owners.

The 2005 Initial Quality Study is based on responses from more than

62,000 purchasers and lessees of new 2005 model-year cars and trucks, who were surveyed after 90 days of ownership. This industry benchmark study for new-vehicle initial quality is now in its 19th year.

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Reply to
William Claude Dukenfield

For W.C.D.: Thank you. Not the same article, but the tabular data that I listed were part of the complete table presented in the AUTOWEEK article. Both articles were, in part, based on the same study. -

Reply to
William Smith

perhaps use a link to that data?

It's easy to take a few figures from and article to support a "opinion".

For instance:

"General Motors earns five top model segment awards, including those for the Chevrolet Malibu/Malibu Maxx (Entry Midsize Car), Buick Century (Premium Midsize Car) and Chevrolet Suburban (Full-Size SUV)."

From the one I posted.

30 days into my new 2005 Mustang Convertible, and the only problem is the Lexus owners drewling on the windows while looking inside.
Reply to
William Claude Dukenfield

For W.C.D.: I do not have any opinion about current GM/Pontiac products. I have been around a long time and have owned and enjoyed many GM vehicles. The last being the worst assembled that I had ever seen - that said, it is now reasonably reliable and I still have it. But, the new car that I recently bought is not GM. It is, however from an "American owned" company. The list I posted was from J. D. Power data and (seems to me) not very unfavorable to GM at all. Chevy and Pontiac, as well as many other makes, just did not happen to be in the top 10. - YOU, obviously are bothered by this. TOO BAD. I said it was from a somewhat well-known industry publication "Autoweek". Find your own link or simply get the results from J.D. Power directly.

Reply to
William Smith

Please note that you must scroll down the page after the end of the article to view the tabular data. Have fun!

Reply to
William Smith

W.C.D.: On 2nd thought, here you go! LINK:

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- Please note that you must scroll down the page after the end of the article to view the tabular data. Have fun!

Reply to
none

I base my experience on having owned the following cars, or growing up with my parents having owned these cars:

Parents (when I was growing up)

*1974 Lincoln Towncar -- (parents owned from 1981 to 1984 when I was a kid) piece of crap constantly in the shop constantly...had to park it level or oil would leak out of the engine (common problem with the Ford 460s...for those of you who know anything about cars...;).....)...the rear power window motor died...as did the motors to the headlight covers) remember, at the time this was only a 7 or 8 year old car

*1977 Chevy 10 Van -- (parents owned in 1984) this thing was just a bomb....hard to remember specifc reasons it was in the shop....but it ran like a truck and the A/C sucked.......

*1978 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser -- (parents owned from 84 - 86) electrical problems.....car would shut off completely while it was running....was left stranded a couple of times as well........regularly in the shop

*1979 Chevy Impala, 1978 Chevorlet Caprice -- (1979 - 1985, 1985-1988) both of these cars were pretty reliable....but the 305 engines started to burn oil around 100K...like really bad......transmissions were a weak link too....pulled out the reverse once.....dad went through starters and brakes..but that was moreso b/c he sold door to door...so that really wasnt normal wear and tear

*1986 Chevy Astro (1986 - 1996) -- reliable car until about 100K...then just a complete money pit and piece of shit.....was on it's second engine and barely chugging along when my parents got rid of it......

*1984 Chevy Corvette (1987 - 1997) -- once again, was a pretty decent car until about 100K......both power windows went out..as did the A/C.........

*1999 Nissan Altima (1999 - present) -- zero problems

*1995 Nissan Maxima (1995 - 2000) -- zero problems

Cars that my partner and I have owned:

*1967 Dodge Dart -- (1990 - 1995) (my first car...I owned from .was well built but i had to dump a ton of money into it...as in 7 grand.....still it was like a 25 yr old car at the time so i really fairly cant bitch about it....was a good car when it was newer....but it died on me during a trip and i got fed up and traded it on a honda)

*1978 Olds 98 -- (1993-1994..while dodge was getting engine rebuilt).......was an ashtray on wheels but a decent car... the 403 and transmission were strong...didnt burn oil over 100K.........was a blast to drive...but the starter was tricky....the fit and finsh of the interior was horrible...everything.....all the trim was just falling apart.......

*1984 Ford Tempo -- (1991 - 1994) piece of crap. Dont even know where to start. Car would rattle and shake at speeds over 50 mph....could sputter to work and back and that's about it......im not kidding.......

*1992 Honda Accord (1995 - 1999) -- no repairs....in all fairness when i got rid of it at 112K....it needed brake pads, fuel pump, and the transmission would pop out of 2nd gear.....I never had it in the shop though (other than for 60K and 90K maintenance) and it never left me stranded......also, I have a friend who has driven the same 1992 Accord LX since high school and has about 260K on it...still with the original engine and transmisson......

*1999 Acura CL (1999 - 2003) -- no problems. ever. nothing. why did i get rid of this car?!

*1999 VW Passat -- now this was trouble prone...at least from like 60K to 75K. Luckily it was all under warranty. Not to excuse it....but most of the problems arose from the prior owners lack of maintenance...... Did have to pay like $750 to replace the timing belt, water pump and thermostat at 90K...will say this though...the fit and finish on the car is excellent...still is tight and runs like a new car

*1995 Nissan Altima (1996 - 1999) -- no problems. ever. perfect car

*1999 Honda CRV (1999 - 2002) -- again, zero problems.

*2002 Nissan Xterra (2002 - present) -- zero problems

*2002 BMW 330i (2005 - current) -- zero problems

So.....I base my opinions on both experience and research........

Overall I equate quality with (1) longevity of the original parts on the car (especially major components) and (2) fit and finish/build quality......meaning...to me a well built car is one that can be 10 yrs old and have 150K and be as tight and reliable as a new car....

I'll tell you what....do this........go to ebaymotors or autotrader.........do a search on Hondas, BMWs, Chevys and Fords.....then do a reverse search in the mileage category........

Then as far as durability......tell me what's a piece of crap......you'll find Hondas, Nissans, BMWs, and Benzs with 200K

+...still on their orig engine..........maybe some full size American trucks...........but as far as American cars (well at least those made in the last 20 yrs).......good luck....
Reply to
Brandon

I was just wondering how do you compare cars from the 70's that were about

Reply to
Bryan Lee

Reply to
Stephen Rabinowitz

Well..that is really my point. The US built great cars on up through the mid 1970s -- then started going to crap. The 80s were horrible and the people I know who have had American cars in the 90s havent fared much better.

My point is simple -- if the US ever wants to gain the marketshare back from those of us who have moved over to German and Japanese cars...they really need to address their quality issues and not just give lipservice to doing so........they need to build cars that last like they used to......vs ones that are engineered to break....or, more accurately, engineered to minimum standards of durability.....

And, back to my original post....the Solstice looking like a 1970s Grand Prix..was intended as a compliment...those were beautiful cars.....I'd love to have a 1972 Grand Prix or Electra 225 in my driveway alongside my Xterra and BMW 330.......

Bryan Lee wrote:

Reply to
Brandon

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